Author Topic: The Pargeter rifle  (Read 12711 times)

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Offline lookout

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Re: The Pargeter rifle
« Reply #180 on: June 12, 2014, 09:20:PM »
 Well of course,April.  ;D  As long as Jeremy told her she was pretty,she'd be okay. ( apparently Sheila liked being reassured that she was pretty------honestly )

Offline lookout

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Re: The Pargeter rifle
« Reply #181 on: June 12, 2014, 09:22:PM »
 Such a shame that Sheila had a low opinion of herself,,and it was Junes' fault.!

Offline Jane

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Re: The Pargeter rifle
« Reply #182 on: June 12, 2014, 09:22:PM »
Well of course,April.  ;D  As long as Jeremy told her she was pretty,she'd be okay. ( apparently Sheila liked being reassured that she was pretty------honestly )


She was insecure, Lookout. It comes with the territory.

Offline lookout

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Re: The Pargeter rifle
« Reply #183 on: June 12, 2014, 09:26:PM »

She was insecure, Lookout. It comes with the territory.





Aww,yes,April. Ever since the " Devil child " business,all those years that Sheila suffered. God I felt sorry for her. When she found a friend,,Sheila clung to her like ivy. How really really sad.

Offline nugnug

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Re: The Pargeter rifle
« Reply #184 on: June 12, 2014, 09:29:PM »
i could belive the story about the riffle being removed a week before the murders if he hadent told the story about taking the bolt out.

i think the lady doth protest to much.

Offline Jane

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Re: The Pargeter rifle
« Reply #185 on: June 12, 2014, 09:33:PM »




Aww,yes,April. Ever since the " Devil child " business,all those years that Sheila suffered. God I felt sorry for her. When she found a friend,,Sheila clung to her like ivy. How really really sad.


No, lookout. Waaaaaaay before then. The "Devil's child" thing wouldn't have touched her had she been sure of herself. I guess she felt she'd never met her mother's exacting standards.

Offline lookout

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Re: The Pargeter rifle
« Reply #186 on: June 12, 2014, 09:41:PM »

No, lookout. Waaaaaaay before then. The "Devil's child" thing wouldn't have touched her had she been sure of herself. I guess she felt she'd never met her mother's exacting standards.




Yes,,unloved and unloveable is how Sheila had described her feelings after June told her she was adopted,,then abruptly left it at that without question.
That,to me,bordered on cruelty,,as both kids were left confused,,then unwanted when they were sent away to their schools.

Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: The Pargeter rifle
« Reply #187 on: June 12, 2014, 09:49:PM »
i could belive the story about the riffle being removed a week before the murders if he hadent told the story about taking the bolt out.

i think the lady doth protest to much.

There is no reason to believe it was used in the murders so it makes no difference at all whether it was there or not.
Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Offline Alias

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Re: The Pargeter rifle
« Reply #188 on: June 12, 2014, 09:52:PM »
Scipio, did you see my question about what happened after the first shot?

Offline nugnug

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Re: The Pargeter rifle
« Reply #189 on: June 12, 2014, 09:58:PM »
There is no reason to believe it was used in the murders so it makes no difference at all whether it was there or not.

it makes a very big difference if it was there then hes made a false statement in a libel trail.

that's perjury i believe.

Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: The Pargeter rifle
« Reply #190 on: June 12, 2014, 11:25:PM »
Thanks.
It does seem awkward to me - why would he choose a position so uncomfortable for him? Sheila sitting there.... She could easily have grabbed the muzzle and turned it away, she had both arms free. I have a hard time buying that she would just sit there taking it!
Implausible, I have to say, I have the hardest time picturing this!

But OK, please, if you would describe what you think happened after the first shot. Again, minus slurs.  8)

P.S. I agree that she probably sat on the bed for the first shot, but I think she shot herself. There seems to be an indentation in the duvet (to the right in the picture) where someone sat.



First of all since he wanted it to appear suicide he could not fire from too far away or the whole plot would be spoiled.  If a gun is fired too far away for a victim to have held it then it is not suicide.  SO the gun had to be held at a distance which she coudl grab the gun if she wanted to try.

Second, shooting from the hip is not uncomfortable.

Shooting sitting would not necesarily be uncomfortable either but would have the disadvantage of Sheila potentially spoiling the shot.

The advantage of standing is that you can have very good control over the weapon so that even if she tries to push the barrel away you can prevent her from doing so because you have more leverage than she does since she is seated on the floor while you are standing.  That is why you pick that position.

Seating her on the bed would be no good.  Her neck would be too high for you to shoot from the hip you would have to hold the gun higher.  If she falls backwards you miss. You want her against something so she can't move. She would have fallen backwards after he shot her if she had been on the bed so would not have bled down her arm and in her lap.

She was on the floor against something. She didn't blled much, that indicated the second shot was not fired very long after the first.  If there were a long gap much more blood would have been on her arms/dress. But her heart stopped not too long after the first shot. The second shot is why. 

So he shot her, he saw she was still breathing so he shot her again.  Since he wanted to lay the gun on her body to make it appear she fell flat he pulled her body away form wherever she was propped.

This left the tell tale marks that she had at one point been sitting up though and spoiled the efforts of trying to make it appear she was in the middle of the floor when shot and fell flat. 

This was a mistake, he over thought it and wanted to stick the gun on her instead of leaving it in front of her.

Then he made another mistake by trying to make it appear she had read the bible.

Of course shooting her with the suppressor attached was yet another mistake. Obviously it was after that he figured out it was too long for her to have shot herself with so he removed it.  Instead of sticking in near her body he decided to pretend it wasn't used at all and made up the tale about the gun being left out in the kitchen sans suppressor.

The more you involve yourself and make up complicated tales though the more problems that can arise.  That is why lawyers want clients to not speak at all.  That prevents them from saying something that could bite them in the ass later.  To try to hed off the proverbial tangled web.

"Sheila fired all guns in the house, she went shooting with me, I left the gun on the kitchen table." 

"Sheila didn't fire any guns with me I never saw her fire a gun.  She was next to me in the kitchen though as I loaded the magazine so she saw how to load the bullets in. I left the gun on the settle.  No I had not used the gun a week prior to the murders"

Jeremy he last known user of the gun says it was in the closet with the scope and suppressor attached what do you have to say about that.  "I used the gun multiple times during the week leading up to the murders and it sometimes had the scope and suppressor attached but other times didn't so he wasn't the last known user like you think"

When you make statements and then keep changing and contradicting them as more information comes in from others then you have problems.  If you had just shut up then these problems would not exist.




 

Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Offline Alias

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Re: The Pargeter rifle
« Reply #191 on: June 14, 2014, 02:57:PM »
There wouldn´t have been room for Jeremy to stand/crouch/kneel there with a rifle with Sheila sitting on the floor leaning against the bed. You need to re-think this, scipio.
All in all your scenario seems unlikely, even impossible. My scenario makes more sense - that she sat on the bed leaning forward with the rifle resting on the floor.






Offline nugnug

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Re: The Pargeter rifle
« Reply #192 on: June 14, 2014, 03:04:PM »
pargeters contradictory statements say one thing to me the riffle was there and it may not of been used but it certanly could of been.

Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: The Pargeter rifle
« Reply #193 on: June 15, 2014, 04:00:AM »
There wouldn´t have been room for Jeremy to stand/crouch/kneel there with a rifle with Sheila sitting on the floor leaning against the bed. You need to re-think this, scipio.
All in all your scenario seems unlikely, even impossible. My scenario makes more sense - that she sat on the bed leaning forward with the rifle resting on the floor.

I didn't say aything about her being against the bed. I said against something.  She could have been against the door, the nightstand, the corner, the chair (which is what experts think).  She was on the floor against something because otherwise she would have fallen backwards upon being shot and would not have bled on her arm or her gown.

If she were on the bed with Jeremy shooting her then she would have fallen back and would not have bled down onto her arm or gown.

If she were on the bed leaning forward upon shooting herself she would have fell to the floor face down.

Both shots were delivered within a few seconds according to the ME. She was shot while seated, she was still seated as she bled after the first shot (so was propped up against something) after a few seconds of blooding onto her arm and gown she was shot again.  Then she was dragged flat, while flat the blood went down the side of her neck onto the floor and pooled.



     
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Offline Alias

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Re: The Pargeter rifle
« Reply #194 on: June 15, 2014, 12:39:PM »
What about the small, apparently blood free rug under Sheila? What is the explanation for that? In both scenarios, Sheila did it or Jeremy did it, it makes little sense and is hard to explain.