If there was no massacre, what would have happened in the morning ?

[grahameb]

Jimmy Shand or the Mangle Worzels ? 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tb63PdPweDc

[Adam]

Really the fake phone call was Jeremys best option. There was no other situation he could put himself in to make him look innocent.

There is a chance Jeremy decided on the spur of the moment to make the call ( thread already created). So had not thought things through.  This would explain why no one can say what Sheila was doing when Neville phoned Jeremy.

[maggie]

Really the fake phone call was Jeremys best option. There was no other situation he could put himself in to make him look innocent.

There is a chance Jeremy decided on the spur of the moment to make the call ( thread already created). So had not thought things through.  This would explain why no one can say what Sheila was doing when Neville phoned Jeremy.

Hi Adam, would have thought doing nothing was Jeremy's best option for looking innocent if he was involved.  There was no hard evidence to prove Jeremy was anywhere near WHF that night so why put yourself in the frame?
The reason no one can say what Sheila was doing when Neville phoned Jeremy is surely because  none of us no one were there.  How on earth could anyone know the answer to that question?

[Adam]

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,5190.0.html

[Adam]

Hi Adam, would have thought doing nothing was Jeremy's best option for looking innocent if he was involved.  There was no hard evidence to prove Jeremy was anywhere near WHF that night so why put yourself in the frame?
The reason no one can say what Sheila was doing when Neville phoned Jeremy is surely because  none of us no one were there.  How on earth could anyone know the answer to that question?

[Adam]

People criticise Jeremy for creating the fake phone call. But the situation would not be much better if he had not done this.

Jeremy was starting work early, probably on WHF farm land before anyone else. So even if someone else found the bodies later in the morning, people can say Jeremy was on the farm land and had the opportunity to committ the massacre beforehand.

If he was due to meet Neville on site first thing in the morning. People will ask why he did not go to WHF when Neville did not show up. But going to WHF puts him at the scene before anyone else.

If the usual routine was to go to the WHF property first thing in the morning for a coffee etc, people will ask why Jeremy did not do this. But doing this puts him at the scene before anyone else. He would have to raise the alarm when he failed to get into WHF. Or break into WHF and find the bodies.

Someone like Barbara Wilson would not be due at WHF until much later. It would look suspicious if Jeremy had not visited WHF to look for Neville beforehand.  But doing that puts him at the crime scene before anyone else.

[Adam]

Jeremys supporters often claim he is innocent because he phoned the police. Rounding the suspects down to two. Surely he would not be that stupid.

But this was his best available option. There were also lots of advantages. The judge stating Jeremy convincingly lead the police in a direction.

Nutter sister, phone calls, guns lying around, fostering conversations, raid teams, crocodile tears. And that was all before Jeremy had annonced he was starving.

[lookout]

 Nothing to do with what you say,Adam. Well that's my own personal opinion.

[Adam]

One option for Jeremy was to not phone the police.

Then drive miles away early the following morning before the bodies were found. Perhaps to see Julie. Then when the bodies were found Jeremy is no where near WHF.

However Jeremy would have to prove he was not supposed to be at work that day. That is unlikely as it was harvest time. Jeremy driving miles away early the following morning would look suspicious.

Creating Nevilles fake phone call was Jeremys best option. Espesically after Neville got downstairs.

[maggie]

One option for Jeremy was to not phone the police.

Then drive miles away early the following morning before the bodies were found. Perhaps to see Julie. Then when the bodies were found Jeremy is no where near WHF.

However Jeremy would have to prove he was not supposed to be at work that day. That is unlikely as it was harvest time. Jeremy driving miles away early the following morning would look suspicious.
Creating Nevilles fake phone call was Jeremys best option. Espesically after Neville got downstairs.

Sorry Adam but that theory doesn't make sense. It is the phone call which involved Jeremy, without that his neighbours would still have stated his car was outside his house all night and there was no sign of movement. There is no forensic evidence to put him at WHF during the night. If Jeremy followed his normal routine the following morning would it matter who discovered the deaths.
If Jeremy was able to be so cool and collected shortly after carrying out such a horrific crime, I'm sure he would have carried it off the following morning.

[Adam]

Sorry Adam but that theory doesn't make sense. It is the phone call which involved Jeremy, without that his neighbours would still have stated his car was outside his house all night and there was no sign of movement. There is no forensic evidence to put him at WHF during the night. If Jeremy followed his normal routine the following morning would it matter who discovered the deaths.
If Jeremy was able to be so cool and collected shortly after carrying out such a horrific crime, I'm sure he would have carried it off the following morning.

If Jeremy discovered the bodies it would put him right in the frame. Or if he was nearby on the farm when the bodies were found, it would also put him right in the frame.

Being the closest relative working on the farm made it difficult for Jeremy. See previous posts on this thread.

Creating the fake phone call from Neville was Jeremys best option. It nearly worked.

[maggie]

If Jeremy discovered the bodies it would put him right in the frame. Or if he was nearby on the farm when the bodies were found, it would also put him right in the frame.

Being the closest relative working on the farm made it difficult for Jeremy. See previous posts on this thread.

Creating the fake phone call from Neville was Jeremys best option. It nearly worked.

No it wouldn't, Jeremy only needed to follow whatever was his normal routine each morning during harvesting. If he was first at the farmhouse he wouldn't have been able to enter, he would have had to raise the alarm in whatever way was apprpriate. It was the phone call which painted him into a corner.

[Adam]

I disagree.

The phone call Jeremy can claim he was at home all night. Being woken by Nevilles call.  He even asked the police to pick him up. Although he was ok to drive home afterwards. When the police refused he drove slowly, arriving after the police.

I created the thread to see if anyone knew what was supposed to happen that morning. It is likely Jeremy would be first on the farm. If he alerted the police after finding the bodies, or because he could not get into WHF, it still rounds the suspects down to two and looks just as bad.

[maggie]

I disagree.

The phone call Jeremy can claim he was at home all night. Being woken by Nevilles call.  He even asked the police to pick him up. Although he was ok to drive home afterwards. When the police refused he drove slowly, arriving after the police.
I created the thread to see if anyone knew what was supposed to happen that morning. It is likely Jeremy would be first on the farm. If he alerted the police after finding the bodies, or because he could not get into WHF, it still rounds the suspects down to two and looks just a bad.

I can appreciate the phone call could have been an attempt at an alibi but it is dreadfully flawed if true, whereas doing nothing except continuing normal behaviour may not give an alibi per se but certainly doesn't place you in the frame. His neighbours would still have claimed his car was parked outside his cottage all night. Normally he would have gone to the farm for breakfast and to discuss the days work, harvest time would possibly be different as the day would start much earlier, probably more people around, he would have had to make sure he had a witness when first approaching the farm and finding everything silent, if he entered
through the window he needed someone to accompany him. Otherwise there would be no reason to particularly accuse Jeremy, without the phonecall it could have been anyone who entered and left the farmhouse via the windows, if he could so could anyone else, it was not a secret the windows could be opened from outside. Imo

[Adam]

He would have gone to the farm for breakfast. Interesting. I said that was unlikely when I created the thread. Do you have a source ?

That would put him right in the frame. There were no mobiles then so Jeremy would have to use a call box, drive to the police, or go back home and ring the police. He would really only do that if he had got into  WHF & discovered the bodies. Again rounding the suspects down to two.

If he simply could not get into WHF, he could have rang BW or someone else who had keys. They could have discovered the bodies together. That still puts Jeremy first on the scene.

Best to make up the phone call. Spend several hours insinuating Sheila. Get a raid team over. Then cry when the bodies are found. He should have been an actor.