If there was no massacre, what would have happened in the morning ?

[Adam]

1:

Jeremy to have coffee & brekkie with the family. Before starting work.

This is unlikely.

Jeremy likes to give the impression he had a nice family supper on the massacre night. However it is well known he did not like and resented his family. The evening supper was Jeremys chance to case the joint, make sure everyone was sleeping at WHF that night, load the rifle and insinuate Sheila later by mentioning the fostering conversation. .

So it is unlikely breakfast and coffee at WHF was going to happen in the morning before work.

2:

Jeremy to meet Neville on site at the farm first thing in the morning.  Neville to instruct Jeremy what to do for the day.

This is more likely. They were both working long hours at the time.


3:

Jeremy knew what he had to do on the farm. So just had to get on with it without meeting anyone beforehand. 

Again possible. Jeremy was an experienced farmer.


It would be good to establish what the normal routine was at the time first thing in the morning. To see if there was a way Jeremy would not look suspicious.

If it was 1 or 2, it would help explain why Jeremy made up the call, as Jeremy was going to be the first person supposed to meet Neville/the family.

If it was 3, Jeremy could claim ignorance and let someone else find the bodies. Providing other people were due at WHF that morning. And had keys to let themselves in and find the bodies. That would not totally rule Jeremy out. As he was outside, nearby on WHF farm land, probably before anyone else as farmers are early starters.

The farm workers or family may know what the normal routine was.

It would be hard for Jeremy to avoid being first on the scene or look suspicious.  He worked there and it was his family.

At least the phone call to the police intially put Jeremy sleeping 'like a log' at home. And arriving after the police.

[scipio_usmc]

Everyone would have woken up, dressed (bathed maybe if they actually did that like most people) eaten breakfast and then did whatever work they usually do or in the case of Sheila space out as she usually did and the boys to play I suppose.

[grahameb]

I suspect that neither of you know anything about farming. The family would meet frequently to discuss what had to be done on the farm. Also they would frequently be up well before dawn, even 3am in some instances, especially at harvest time when the weather was dodgy. Farmers around here (Essex) sometimes work through the night to get the fields cleared. In short farming is jolly hard work and the hours are long. In fact you may not agree with this, but Ralph may have been getting up at 3am anyway and Jeremy would not have been far behind Ralph. I would even suggest that probably only the kids would have been asleep?

[Jan]

it would depend on the farm and time of year.

My dad always went to work at 5 am  and came back for breakfast later.

Dairy and arable farms quite often have different agendas .

Again I wonder if there were interviews on the original file with farmworkers ,permanent and temporary ( which there would have been at this time of the year)

[grahameb]

it would depend on the farm and time of year.

My dad always went to work at 5 am  and came back for breakfast later.

Dairy and arable farms quite often have different agendas .

Again I wonder if there were interviews on the original file with farmworkers ,permanent and temporary ( which there would have been at this time of the year)

WHF was an arable farm and it was harvest time. Work the rest of it out yourself. Believe you me that family were not the lying in type at that time of year.

[lookout]

 I think I read that Mr Foakes was on his way  to WHF from his cottage close by,,at 4am,in readiness to work,until he saw the police cars around and realised that something was wrong. He very likely spoke to one of the officers that morning.
So yes,,they all began early because of it being harvest-time. There'd have been no need for Sheila to have been up,as she wasn't working and was purely on a break with the boys.

I bet Sheila wasn't relishing the idea of the boys going away either, with Colin and the girlfriend. Poor woman had got it into her head that there might have been some reconciliation between her and Colin.

[grahameb]

I think I read that Mr Foakes was on his way  to WHF from his cottage close by,,at 4am,in readiness to work,until he saw the police cars around and realised that something was wrong. He very likely spoke to one of the officers that morning.
So yes,,they all began early because of it being harvest-time. There'd have been no need for Sheila to have been up,as she wasn't working and was purely on a break with the boys.

I bet Sheila wasn't relishing the idea of the boys going away either, with Colin and the girlfriend. Poor woman had got it into her head that there might have been some reconciliation between her and Colin.

They try and play this down. But quite probably this was playing on her mind all night?

[Jan]

WHF was an arable farm and it was harvest time. Work the rest of it out yourself. Believe you me that family were not the lying in type at that time of year.

we had a LOT of workers at harvest time - lots of local help

H&S rules were not so strict then - lots of us making camps out of hay bales as well

It would have been a busy time - even early in the morning

[lookout]

They try and play this down. But quite probably this was playing on her mind all night?

It would have been,Grahame,,as it's enough to disturb a normally balanced mind.
How many headlines are there where someone has either killed the other partner,or committed suicide over a rift in the relationship ? This alone,without the other issues that Sheila had,,including her deteriorating mental condition.

Children ALWAYS suffer in times like this where parents split,,and to save their suffering,,or save them from going to someone else,,this is how a sick mind would work.

[grahameb]

we had a LOT of workers at harvest time - lots of local help

H&S rules were not so strict then - lots of us making camps out of hay bales as well

It would have been a busy time - even early in the morning

Remember the barn parties Jan?

[Jan]

oh yes.

I was very lucky to have been bought up on a farm - but I also know what hard work it is.

I can totally understand why a young Jeremy was reluctant to go into that line of work.

[lookout]

Remember the barn parties Jan?

Jimmy Shand or the Mangle Worzels ? 

[Adam]

People criticise Jeremy for creating the fake phone call. But the situation would not be much better if he had not done this.

Jeremy was starting work early, probably on WHF farm land before anyone else. So even if someone else found the bodies later in the morning, people can say Jeremy was on the farm land and had the opportunity to committ the massacre beforehand.

If he was due to meet Neville on site first thing in the morning. People will ask why he did not go to WHF when Neville did not show up. But going to WHF puts him at the scene before anyone else.

If the usual routine was to go to the WHF property first thing in the morning for a coffee etc, people will ask why Jeremy did not do this. But doing this puts him at the scene before anyone else. He would have to raise the alarm when he failed to get into WHF. Or break into WHF and find the bodies.

Someone like Barbara Wilson would not be due at WHF until much later. It would look suspicious if Jeremy had not visited WHF to look for Neville beforehand.  But doing that puts him at the crime scene before anyone else.

[Adam]

Jeremy phoning the police at home, at least puts him at home. Then arriving after the police at WHF. He could then lead the police in a certain direction over the next few hours.


If Jeremy had not phoned the police. He would surely have still been charged.

There was still the silencer evidence and Julies testimony. Jeremy still had a motive, opportunity and no alibi. Why an earth would a complete stranger enter WHF and massacre men, women and children ? There was no evidence of this happening & no violent killers in the quiet countryside area at the time.  Anyway the scene suggested it to be Sheila.

[Adam]

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,4960.0.html