Author Topic: The last ultimate test of gun, to prove sound moderator was not used in shooting  (Read 49787 times)

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Offline lookout

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 Trouble is,there were rugs on rugs,so we the public didn't get to see the extent of the carnage because police destroyed so much from within the farmhouse. This is why on all the pics,there doesn't appear to have been the bloodbath that there was.

Offline Alias

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On the other hand the blood on Sheila's feet could have been from a trail left on the landing by a bleeding Nevill. I assume Sheila walked into the master bedroom though the main door and not through the interconnecting door from the twins' room,otherwise why was there no blood on the carpet in that area?

She must have entered through the door from the landing - stepping over June´s dead body.

Offline Steve_uk

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She must have entered through the door from the landing - stepping over June´s dead body.
Yes alias it is strange.

Offline mike tesko

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Now, the more you think about it (this), perhaps it could be tied in with the contents of the call Ralph made to Jeremy, when he told him that "She has got the gun, she has gone crazy" - is the presence of blood on the sole of Sheila's feet that she had already used the gun, and already shot one of the victims? Because, no matter which way you look at it, Sheila appears to have done nothing or very little at all to come to the aid of any of the other victims after her feet became contaminated with the blood from at least one of the victims...
« Last Edit: June 29, 2014, 04:07:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline scipio_usmc

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A stop needs to be made to other people changing the meaning of what I have been saying or posting, since the way these people are reporting these things they are trying to change the meaning and purpose of what I report. Sometimes, I am reporting what is posted elsewhere on other web sites, sometimes I am reporting what has been posted on our forum, or in newspaper reports or TV bulletins, or be reference to some evidential fact contained in the case files, yet there are some who are repeatedly altering these references as though I have said this, or I have said that...

None of which is reliable at all and have already been debunked as lies, fantasy and pure nonsense.

A typical example, is where these other people have been saying that Sheila was shot on the second occasion two hours or more after the first shot across the neck was inflicted, which is not something I have been saying at all. Although there is evidence available to confirm that there was ample delay between the firing of the two shots, where blood that ran from the original bullet wound on Sheila's neck, and the rear of her nightdress, which had clearly already dried before the second shot was discharged in her neck under the chin, a feature everyone can see in the photograph posted previously.

You did indeed suggest that the second shot was delivered hours later.  Moreover, there is no evidence at all that blood dried from the first wound before the second wound was delivered. Your claim the photo demonstrates such is false.  The second shot was delivered within seconds of the first of there would have been far more blood that ran down her shoulder.  That is the medical opinio of the coroner and niether you nor anyone else has provided any medical expert who can dispute this. 

You have no evidentiary basis at all to question the coroner's findings.  Your claims are all unsupported and fail to dent the claim of the coroner.   

What I would like to do, is ask everyone how long do you think the blood trail from the lower non fatal wound on her neck was inflicted, as compared to the fresh looking blood that was photographed running, pouring and leaking from the upper fatal bullet wound?

The wound you claim is fresh looking is extremely dark.  It obviously is not sending any blood out.  It looks dry.  Your claim it is wet blood is not supportable at all.  indeed the blood trailing from both wounds down the side of her neck looks identical.   

There is clearly a significant delay, between the firing of both shots, not only in the angle of the rifle at the time each shot was discharged, but chiefly because the first shot was non fatal, and the second shot was fatal. The delay between both shots (bullet PV/20 and PV/19) can be seen in the photographs taken at around 10 O'clock by PC Bird (SOC), where the vertical blood trail is dried, whilst the horizontal blood trails are wet and fresh looking...

The first shot would have been fatal had the second shot not been delivered.  The second shot killed Sheila before the 1st shot could result in her bleeding out.  She would have bled far more down her shoulder and arm if the second shot had been delivered more than mere seconds later.  You lack the medical training necessary to say otherwise you need to find an expert to challenge the coroner but the defense hasn't found one who can challenge the coroner so you have none to rely on.

All the picture in question shows is that when she was seated gravity removed most blood from her neck and the blood went down her shoulder. The fact a trail didn't stay there to dry means she was shot again very soon after the first shot and moved flat not too long after that. 

Your claims are not suppoerted by science or competent evidence.  You claims are unsupported and clearly wrong and not credible. No matter how many times you claim the blood is wet that doesn't prove it is wet.  The doctor who saw her said the blood was dry and it certianly looks dry to me and others who have actually seen wet blood in photos.  The wounds are very dark which is indicative of the wounds being dry.  The blood is also flat.  Wet blood will have blobs that stand out and it will be very shiny with reflections. A bleeding wound has blood around the opening not dark scabs. Your claims are completely baseless from top to bottom.   

Linked to these discrepancies, is the presence of the heavy bloodstain present upon the rear of Sheila's nightdress which had clearly dried prior to her body being laid out on the bedroom floor adjacent to the parents bed. None of the blood on the rear of the nightdress was transferred onto the rug / carpet beneath Sheila's body where it was photographed from around 10 O'clock onwards, so it is safe to assume, safe to conclude, that the lower bullet wound on Sheila's neck, with its corresponding vertical dried blood stain running down her neck, is linked and associated to the dried bloodstain on the reverse of her nightdress, and that in fact Sheila must have been laid somewhere else at the scene beforehand, somewhere where the blood on the reverse of her nightdress was replicated or transferred onto the bed in the main bedroom, or the floor in the kitchen...


Your reasoning is badly flawed, totally unsupported and at the end of the day wholely baseless and lacking in any evidentiary support whatsoever and not credible in light of the things I mentioned. 
Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Offline scipio_usmc

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Now, the more you think about it (this), perhaps it could be tied in with the contents of the call Ralph made to Jeremy, when he told him that "She has got the gun, she has gone crazy" - is the presence of blood on the sole of Sheila's feet that she had already used the gun, and already shot one of the victims? Because, no matter which way you look at it, Sheila appears to have done nothing or very little at all to come to the aid of any of the other victims after her feet became contaminated with the blood from at least one of the victims...

There is no reliable evidence those are Sheila's feet.  At any rate there is no evidence that it is not dirt on her feet as opposed to blood. The photo is extremely poor quality and not of any value at trying to dispute the findings of the coroner.  If she did walk through a puddle of blood though she not only would have more blood than that on her feet, more significantly she would have left bloody footprints.

As for not coming to the aid of the victims- you and your brethren are the ones insisting Nevill was too scared to do anything and called Jeremy because he was too afraid to try to disarm his small daughter so expecting her to disarm Jeremy as he was killing them is hilarious.  You also claim the walls were sothick that gunshots would not penetrate from one room to another.

At any rate, how fast would someone in her position be able to react?  Pouring 11 rounds into the parents could be done in less than 20 seconds.  By the time she got up and left her room she could have seen June on the floor and went to her while the men were already downstairs. She could have tried to help her mother but thewas nothing she could do since either headshot would have instantly killed June.   
Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Offline mike tesko

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I'll let others be the judge of whether or not what I am saying is credible...

One of the blood trails on Sheila's neck is dry, the other fresh and wet looking, the photograph is evidence of these facts, similarly, some of the blood staining on the collar is dry, and next to this is regions of the same collar that is wet and fresh looking...

On the reverse of Sheila's nightdress is a very large blood stained area, with a particularly distinctive area of clotted blood which miraculously never got transferred onto the rug / carpet beneath where her body ended up on the bedroom floor...

Now, how could all that / this blood be present on the rear of Sheila's nightdress, yet be absent from the carpet...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline maggie

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I'll let others be the judge of whether or not what I am saying is credible...

One of the blood trails on Sheila's neck is dry, the other fresh and wet looking, the photograph is evidence of these facts, similarly, some of the blood staining on the collar is dry, and next to this is regions of the same collar that is wet and fresh looking...

On the reverse of Sheila's nightdress is a very large blood stained area, with a particularly distinctive area of clotted blood which miraculously never got transferred onto the rug / carpet beneath where her body ended up on the bedroom floor...

Now, how could all that / this blood be present on the rear of Sheila's nightdress, yet be absent from the carpet...
I cannot disagree with what you are describing Mike and have always believed all that blood collected under her arm looked suspiciously a if she had been turned on her right side in the recovery position.  Haven't seen the clotted blood on the back of Sheila's nightie but have always wondered about that rug she is lying on which appears to be free of blood. 

Offline mike tesko

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I'll let others be the judge of whether or not what I am saying is credible...

One of the blood trails on Sheila's neck is dry, the other fresh and wet looking, the photograph is evidence of these facts, similarly, some of the blood staining on the collar is dry, and next to this is regions of the same collar that is wet and fresh looking...

On the reverse of Sheila's nightdress is a very large blood stained area, with a particularly distinctive area of clotted blood which miraculously never got transferred onto the rug / carpet beneath where her body ended up on the bedroom floor...

Now, how could all that / this blood be present on the rear of Sheila's nightdress, yet be absent from the carpet...

The first shot which produced the dry blood stained area on the reverse of Sheila's nightdress must have happened in another part of the house, not whilst Sheila was laid out on the floor next to the bed...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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The angle of the first shot, and the angle of the second shot, are inconsistent with any suggestion that both shots were discharged and inflicted one after the other, because blood from one wound had already dried on the neck in a vertical fashion, and the rear of the nightdress, yet blood from the second shot which is fresh and wet looking poured and ran freely horizontally from the second wound beneath the chin...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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It is very easy for anybody to keep saying that there is no evidence of this, no evidence of that, without producing any evidence to prove there is no evidence. When people resort to saying this all of the time, it indicates that they are struggling to find any constructive argument to try and counter what is being argued - "there is no evidence of that" or "there is no evidence of this", or "That's not evidence", is a rather inadequate response...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline scipio_usmc

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I cannot disagree with what you are describing Mike and have always believed all that blood collected under her arm looked suspiciously a if she had been turned on her right side in the recovery position.  Haven't seen the clotted blood on the back of Sheila's nightie but have always wondered about that rug she is lying on which appears to be free of blood.

Some drops of blood were visible on the white rug under her.

The claims he made about the blood in the photo being fresh and wounds still bleeding don't hold any water at all.  The telltale signs of a bleeding wound are not present.  Both wounds are very dark and no fresh flow can be seen coming from them.

Had 2 been delivered significantly later both flows down the side would not look the same.
Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Offline Alias

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Some drops of blood were visible on the white rug under her.

The claims he made about the blood in the photo being fresh and wounds still bleeding don't hold any water at all.  The telltale signs of a bleeding wound are not present.  Both wounds are very dark and no fresh flow can be seen coming from them.

Had 2 been delivered significantly later both flows down the side would not look the same.

I haven´t been able to spot any. Can you link to it?

Offline mike tesko

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Both of the horizontal type flows of fresh blood, might only be from the second wound which got transferred onto a different part of the neck because the victims head lolled forwards, then backwards, and slightly to the right at the time the fatal shot was received under the chin...

Alternatively, it is also possible that blood started to flow again from the first wound because of the impact of the second fatal shot, resulting in the second flow of blood from the first shot, running horizontally. There is evidence that blood ran vertically, and horizontally from the lower wound, but that blood from the upper wound only ran horizontally. This is interesting because with the vertical blood trail of the first lower wound being dry, and the associated horizontal blood trail from the same wound being fresh and wet looking...

You can clearly see that the vertical blood trail from the lower wound has dried significantly, as opposed to the other horizontal running blood trail leaving the same wound, one is dry looking in stark contrast to the other which is wet looking...
« Last Edit: June 29, 2014, 05:05:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline maggie

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Some drops of blood were visible on the white rug under her.

The claims he made about the blood in the photo being fresh and wounds still bleeding don't hold any water at all.  The telltale signs of a bleeding wound are not present.  Both wounds are very dark and no fresh flow can be seen coming from them.

Had 2 been delivered significantly later both flows down the side would not look the same.
I am aware thee photos are very poor quality so it's very difficult to see the true picture, literally.