Author Topic: June Bamber, (accomplice) the killer...  (Read 6731 times)

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Offline lookout

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Re: June Bamber, (accomplice) the killer...
« Reply #30 on: June 02, 2014, 01:54:PM »
 Not impossible nugs. Self defence and all that. If one happened to grab hold of a firearm,,the other would follow suit,,more as a threat than to fire it in anger.

Why weren't those " grab marks " ever scrutinised on both the arms of June and Neville ?

Offline Reader

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Re: June Bamber, (accomplice) the killer...
« Reply #31 on: June 02, 2014, 03:26:PM »
It becomes obvious to me,  that June shot and killed the two child victims, and that she fought with, and killed her husband, . . .
After persuading him to call Jeremy and put the blame on Sheila?

Offline nugnug

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Re: June Bamber, (accomplice) the killer...
« Reply #32 on: June 02, 2014, 03:43:PM »
Not impossible nugs. Self defence and all that. If one happened to grab hold of a firearm,,the other would follow suit,,more as a threat than to fire it in anger.

Why weren't those " grab marks " ever scrutinised on both the arms of June and Neville ?

no its not impossible but ive never heard of 2 people having complete mental break downs at the same time in the same place.

Offline lookout

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Re: June Bamber, (accomplice) the killer...
« Reply #33 on: June 02, 2014, 03:54:PM »
no its not impossible but ive never heard of 2 people having complete mental break downs at the same time in the same place.




Nugs,,it wasn't a case of two people both having " mental breakdowns " at the same time. It would only have taken the one,Sheila,who we knew to have been pretty ill latterly,,to have sparked off a chain reaction,causing her mother to argue back with her,,June herself having also been ill and I guess wouldn't have been in any frame of mind to listen to Sheilas' rants. Each one would have then been relying on the support of Neville who'd have been in the middle of it all poor chap. My reckoning is that he was trying his best and that's probably when he rang Jeremy.

Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: June Bamber, (accomplice) the killer...
« Reply #34 on: June 02, 2014, 04:40:PM »



Nugs,,it wasn't a case of two people both having " mental breakdowns " at the same time. It would only have taken the one,Sheila,who we knew to have been pretty ill latterly,,to have sparked off a chain reaction,causing her mother to argue back with her,,June herself having also been ill and I guess wouldn't have been in any frame of mind to listen to Sheilas' rants. Each one would have then been relying on the support of Neville who'd have been in the middle of it all poor chap. My reckoning is that he was trying his best and that's probably when he rang Jeremy.

June had a breakdown why?  It doesn't just happen out of the blue from nothing.

Sheila had a breakdown why?  It doesn't jsut happen out of the blue for nothing.

over 99% of cases of suicide, murder or murder-suicide by Schizophrenics is when they are drunk, high on drugs, stopped taking their medication or  were not diagnosed yet and never under treatment.

Cases of Schizophrenics killing while on their medication is exceedingly rare and those cases usually involve killing not because of the illness so much as some other reason like heat of passion (a non-ill person in their place might have done the same thing).

So the odds are already against either breaking down and resorting to murder individually, the odds of them having breakdowns at the same time where they both are murderous even more remote.

The chance of them getting up out of bed and doing this in the middle of the night makes it even more remote if they were going to fight it would have been earlier.

If they were fighting why would Nevill call Jeremy?  Jeremy had a poor relationship with both June and Sheila so how could he be a mediator?  this is one of the things Colin broaches in his supplemental statement to police.  She had such a poor relationship with Jeremy that she didn't like the idea of Jeremy driving her home from Collin's party- Colin is the one who selected Jeremy for the task.

If there is an explosive situation who would call someone to bring a lighted match? 

Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Offline mike tesko

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Re: June Bamber, (accomplice) the killer...
« Reply #35 on: June 02, 2014, 04:48:PM »
June was not shot whilst sleeping in bed, otherwise there would have been fibres from the quilt and her nightdress on the buullets and similar fibers carried into the wounds she sustained. Prosecution claims that June was sleeping in her bed when she got shot is a red herring introduced by the prosecution so that they could turn the trial into a two horse race, instead of it being a three horse race (in reality), or a four horse race if Jeremy was added into the equation...

June
Sheila
Police
Jeremy
« Last Edit: June 02, 2014, 05:01:PM by mike tesko »
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Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: June Bamber, (accomplice) the killer...
« Reply #36 on: June 02, 2014, 04:55:PM »
June was not shot wholst sleepinf in bed *  othrrwise tjere would habee fibres from the quilt and her mightdress on the nillets. and similat fibers carried into zhe wounds dhe dustained. Prosecution claims that June was sleeping in her bed when she got shot is a red herring introduce by the prosecution so that they could turn the trial into a two horde race, instad of it being a three horse race (in realitty), or a four horse race if Jeremy was afded into the equation...

June
Sheila
Police
Jeremy

Several bullets that exited her body were in the bed. She bled in the bed as well, clearly she had been in bed while a number of the shots were fired.
Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Offline Jane

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Re: June Bamber, (accomplice) the killer...
« Reply #37 on: June 02, 2014, 05:03:PM »
June had a breakdown why?  It doesn't just happen out of the blue from nothing.

Sheila had a breakdown why?  It doesn't jsut happen out of the blue for nothing.

over 99% of cases of suicide, murder or murder-suicide by Schizophrenics is when they are drunk, high on drugs, stopped taking their medication or  were not diagnosed yet and never under treatment.

Cases of Schizophrenics killing while on their medication is exceedingly rare and those cases usually involve killing not because of the illness so much as some other reason like heat of passion (a non-ill person in their place might have done the same thing).

So the odds are already against either breaking down and resorting to murder individually, the odds of them having breakdowns at the same time where they both are murderous even more remote.

The chance of them getting up out of bed and doing this in the middle of the night makes it even more remote if they were going to fight it would have been earlier.

If they were fighting why would Nevill call Jeremy?  Jeremy had a poor relationship with both June and Sheila so how could he be a mediator?  this is one of the things Colin broaches in his supplemental statement to police.  She had such a poor relationship with Jeremy that she didn't like the idea of Jeremy driving her home from Collin's party- Colin is the one who selected Jeremy for the task.

If there is an explosive situation who would call someone to bring a lighted match?


I'm not saying you're wrong................exactly!!!!! but shall we look at this from a different perspective? A POSSIBLE reason that she didn't want Jeremy to take her home from the party was that she wanted to get Colin away from his girlfriend. Colin, on the other hand MAY have sen what was coming, ie the suggestion that they reconcile, and decided that he didn't WANT to leave his girlfriend so he told his ex that he'd had too much to drink and asked Jeremy AND Julie to take her home, MAYBE because he was the only other person there who she knew.

It has been suggested that at the time June WAS on medication for depression but I can't verify it. There's no point in going over the Haloperidol thing again as we'll never agree. You give endless facts and stats and having spent, what felt like AEONS on them, I know just how well they can be made to fit. All I will say is, given that Sheila HAD left the hospital early to avoid Christine Jay seeing her in psychiatric care, given that Dr F WAS concerned enough about her to suggest she was visited by psych nurses, which didn't happen, given that NOBODY from Mental Health had ANY contact with her when she had to have been under the greatest psychological strain she'd EVER experienced, whilst I won't say categorically that she experienced breakdown, given her past history, I feel it's more likely that she did, than didn't.

Offline mike tesko

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Re: June Bamber, (accomplice) the killer...
« Reply #38 on: June 02, 2014, 05:08:PM »
Several bullets that exited her body were in the bed. She bled in the bed as well, clearly she had been in bed while a number of the shots were fired.

You cannot possibly know that she was in the bed, as opposed to being on the bed when she got shot...

Two rounds were eventually recoved from one of the pillows, but there is absolutely no evidence that this proves she had been shot whilst sleeping in bed, as opposed to falling onto the bed, and then being shot...

Presence of her blood on the bed, does not prove she was shot whilst a sleep..
« Last Edit: June 02, 2014, 07:40:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline lookout

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Re: June Bamber, (accomplice) the killer...
« Reply #39 on: June 02, 2014, 05:09:PM »
June had a breakdown why?  It doesn't just happen out of the blue from nothing.

Sheila had a breakdown why?  It doesn't jsut happen out of the blue for nothing.

over 99% of cases of suicide, murder or murder-suicide by Schizophrenics is when they are drunk, high on drugs, stopped taking their medication or  were not diagnosed yet and never under treatment.

Cases of Schizophrenics killing while on their medication is exceedingly rare and those cases usually involve killing not because of the illness so much as some other reason like heat of passion (a non-ill person in their place might have done the same thing).

So the odds are already against either breaking down and resorting to murder individually, the odds of them having breakdowns at the same time where they both are murderous even more remote.

The chance of them getting up out of bed and doing this in the middle of the night makes it even more remote if they were going to fight it would have been earlier.

If they were fighting why would Nevill call Jeremy?  Jeremy had a poor relationship with both June and Sheila so how could he be a mediator?  this is one of the things Colin broaches in his supplemental statement to police.  She had such a poor relationship with Jeremy that she didn't like the idea of Jeremy driving her home from Collin's party- Colin is the one who selected Jeremy for the task.

If there is an explosive situation who would call someone to bring a lighted match?





Mental illness isn't something that's planned,,nor is it possible to predict what a patient will do when put under pressure.
Yes,,both women had breakdowns.Both of which you should by now have read about in order to form your own judgement about the two women.

Sheila HAD more or less stopped taking the medication which was prescribed,,save for the remains of a reduced level of the anti-psychotic intra-muscular drug,,which would have been so reduced at that stage,to have made no difference at all to her mental state,apart from reverting her illness back to a stage of violence before she'd began the course.

Neither women were good sleepers. Schizophrenics hardly sleep at night,,and June used to be treated for her nighmares if and when she slept because she too was a poor sleeper.

Neville would have called Jeremy,because this time during one of Sheilas " episodes " she'd happened to have a gun. So appropriately enough,,Neville called for help to Jeremy first,thinking that between the two of them,they'd avoid a fate worse than death,,sadly it wasn't to be. Neville would have avoided ringing the police in case it inflamed the situation even more if Sheila had seen them.

Jeremy had offered to take Sheila home from the party,because Colin was too drunk. It had nothing to do with the fact that he took her home under sufferance. Much as you and others would like to think on those lines. It helps with your own agendas.

Offline nugnug

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Re: June Bamber, (accomplice) the killer...
« Reply #40 on: June 02, 2014, 05:16:PM »
i dont think think the problem was not taking it was the medication she was taking.


http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=869.0

wich can couse murders.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2014, 05:27:PM by nugnug »

Offline mike tesko

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Re: June Bamber, (accomplice) the killer...
« Reply #41 on: June 02, 2014, 05:23:PM »
According to Cyclops reviewers, it can be proven categorically that June had not been shot in bed, but that she was shot initially whilst standing upright close to the bed, and that as a result of being shot she fell back on the bed and was shot repeatedly...
« Last Edit: June 02, 2014, 05:27:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: June Bamber, (accomplice) the killer...
« Reply #42 on: June 02, 2014, 05:26:PM »
You cannot possibly know thAt she was in the bed, ss opposed to being on the bed when she got shot...

Two rounds were eventually recoves from one of the pillows, but there is absolutely no evidence that this proves she had been shot whilst sleeping in bed as opposed to falling onto the bed and then being shot...

Presence of her blood on the bed, does not prove she was shot whilst a sleep..

I'm not seeing a distinction between being in bed and on the bed or even being asleep as opposed to not falling asleep yet or waking up and then being shot.

Why would she let Sheila live after killing everyone else and worse get on the bed and allow Sheila access to the gun?   

You are looking at the evidence and trying to make up scenarios that the physical evidence can't definitively rule out as opposed to being guided by the evidence.

You first said in another thread that June wasn't tested for GSR and blood of other victims so this means she could theoretically have been involved.

Now you say she was but have no evidence of that you still just have the same lack of evidence to prove for sure she didn't fire a gun.  By the same token though you lack any physical evidence she did fire a gun.

It is bad enough you have no evidence but the scenario makes no sense.  A scenario has to make sense to be even slightly plausible.

June killing anyone make no sense but especially not to kill just the boys and Nevill and then sit in bed and present Sheila with the opportunity to then kill her. 

On rare occasion implausible things are proved to have occurred but they were proved and we know they occurred because of strong proof it happened and that certainly is lacking here.   The lack of testing June for GSR and foreign blood doesn't amount to evidence the implausible happened.
   
Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry

Offline mike tesko

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Re: June Bamber, (accomplice) the killer...
« Reply #43 on: June 02, 2014, 05:58:PM »
Yes, it is now my case that police did swab June Bambers hands (DRH/33),  bur that upon being received at the lab' on 9th August in the same packaging as another firearm said not to have been.used in this case, the hand swabs in question were never examined or analysed. So there is your answer to that part of your scenario, Junes hand swabs were taken, but rejected at the lab' because of possible contamination, because the police sent Junes hand swabs to the lab' in the same evidence bag as the BSA air rifle...

Furthermore, I can change my mind about the evidence or lack of it whenever I want to, this is a forum where the purpose is to debate  matters, with this in mind why should I be restricted to only one view, when I might have got many?  I am not giving evidence in a court of law, and I certainly do not need the expertise of a police officer to paraphase the content of a witness statement they might require from me - you might never kmow when a senior officer might tamper so called legally, with its contents.  I can think for myself, I can speak for myself, I can write for myself, but sometimes my spelling is appalling...
« Last Edit: June 02, 2014, 07:46:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: June Bamber, (accomplice) the killer...
« Reply #44 on: June 02, 2014, 06:25:PM »
Yes, it is now my case that police did swab June Bambers hands (DRH/33),  bur that upon being received at the lab' on 9th August in the same packaging as another firearm said not to have been.used in thus case, the hand swabs in question were never examined or analysed. So there is your answer to that part of your scenario, Junes hand swabs were taken, but rejected at the lab' because of possible contamination because the police sent Junes hand swabs to the lab' in the save evidence bag as the BSA air rifle...

Furthermore, I can change my mind about the evidence or lack of it whenever I want to, this is a forum where the purpose is to debate  matters, with this in mind why shoild i be restricted to only one view, when I might have got many?  I am not giving evidence in a court of law, and I certainly do not need the experzise of ap...oolice officer to paraphasethe contents of a witness statement they might require from me - you might never kmow when a senior officer mihht tamper so called legally with its contents.  I can tjink for myself, I can speak for myself, I can write for myself, but sometimes my spelling is appalling...

You have the right to make an claims you like.  But they are going to be challenged unless they make sense and have evidentiary support.  Questions about why June would do the things alleged are natural and have to be expected.

If you want to believe it that's your preogative but the scenario is implausible and there is no evidence at all to back it up.

Where we stand is you saying it is not impossible and you choose to believe it happened and apparently a couple of people being the same with most others saying it is implausible and will not believe it unless evidence is put forth to establish it happened.  This is the stalemate we find outselves in.
 
Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry