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Offline nugnug

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Re: What if?
« Reply #75 on: May 31, 2014, 10:21:PM »
maybe his kids told him one thing after hed had a chat to june he thought things as bad as he had thought and decided to let it drop.

after going there himself he could of decided his boys were exaggerating.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2014, 10:23:PM by nugnug »
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Offline Patti

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Re: What if?
« Reply #76 on: May 31, 2014, 10:22:PM »
Quote from: Alias on May 31, 2014, 10:15:PM
They lived with Colin the last five months.

That is correct Alias. Sheila had been admitted to hospital and her doctor told the court that she had left the hospital before her treatment was complete. Thus, meant she was still unable (bless her) to look after the children and was still unable in August of that same year 1985.   :(
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Offline Alias

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Re: What if?
« Reply #77 on: May 31, 2014, 10:26:PM »
Quote from: Patti on May 31, 2014, 10:22:PM
That is correct Alias. Sheila had been admitted to hospital and her doctor told the court that she had left the hospital before her treatment was complete. Thus, meant she was still unable (bless her) to look after the children and was still unable in August of that same year 1985.   :(
No one can make me believe that things were improving for Sheila at the time of the murders! Whaat did she have to look forward to? Her career was over, she couldn´t even keep a cleaning job, her boys were not with her, Colin was in love with someone else, she did drugs.
It isn´t SPLENDID, is it? I feel so bad for her, I think I would have liked Sheila, she deserved better.
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Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: What if?
« Reply #78 on: May 31, 2014, 10:27:PM »
Quote from: Alias on May 31, 2014, 09:54:PM
Colin writes that Sheila´s condition ALWAYS deteriorated dramatically when she visited WHF or had contact with especially June. There is nothing at all that indicates that June and Sheila´s relationship improved prior to or at that last visit. Don´t make things up to fit your agenda.
Sheila did not want to go, the boys did not want to go, they were afraid of June´s shouting at them and the constant praying.

Freddie claimed her situation would deteriorate. Colin stated she was closer to June after her second breakdown and had found religion.  He said they had a poor relationship but it improved after her second breakdown.

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Offline mike tesko

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Re: What if?
« Reply #79 on: May 31, 2014, 10:27:PM »
Quote from: Patti on May 31, 2014, 10:17:PM
Hi Mike :)

I wouldn't go as far as saying that. From what I gather June was a pleasant person and worked very hard on the farm.  I know Colin did not get on with her all that well and he tells us that in his book.

I think June tried to protect Sheila in more ways than one.  June also tried to look after her own mother and was devastated when her mother in law died.  I don't think June was a bad person at all.  June bought Colin a car, she gave them money,she bought them a flat, she bought them food and paid some of their debts....No orge would do that I'm afraid.   ;D ;D ;D ;D

Hi Patti, 

it may well be true what you say, but the children would not know, or have any concept of these adult matters. What counted in so far as what the children knew, or what they had in thier minds, was arguably much different, as seen and experienced through the eyes of a child, or children...

History reveals that the children did not look forward to staying with granny at the farm...

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Offline Patti

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Re: What if?
« Reply #80 on: May 31, 2014, 10:31:PM »
Quote from: mike tesko on May 31, 2014, 10:27:PM
Hi Patti, 

it may well be true what you say, but the children would not know, or have any concept of these adult matters. What counted in so far as what the children knew, or what they had in thier minds, was arguably much different, as seen and experienced through the eyes of a child, or children...

History reveals that the children did not look forward to staying with granny at the farm...

I agree Mike. I read the letter that Colin had written to NB. He gave the letter to the police. Hi did have concerns about the June making them pray and in all fairness Colin should have sent the letter to whom it was intended.  I find it a real shame that CC did not confront both NB and JB of what the children were saying. If he had done would it have changed the outcome??????  ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Offline mike tesko

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Re: What if?
« Reply #81 on: May 31, 2014, 10:34:PM »
What mattered, was what was in the minds of the children, and how they viewed the role played by nanni June on the occasions the twins went to stay at whf - images drawn by Nicholas and Daniel, speak volumes for the relationship between June and the boys. There was definately something not quite right about the relationship between the grandma and children, noted in particular by Colin, himself...
« Last Edit: May 31, 2014, 10:36:PM by mike tesko »
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Offline nugnug

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Re: What if?
« Reply #82 on: May 31, 2014, 10:37:PM »
he think he probely went there to have it out with but when he got there and he had a bit of a chat with him he decided hed got the wrong end of the stick and dident persue it further.
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Offline Jane

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Re: What if?
« Reply #83 on: May 31, 2014, 10:38:PM »
Quote from: scipio_usmc on May 31, 2014, 10:27:PM
Freddie claimed her situation would deteriorate. Colin stated she was closer to June after her second breakdown and had found religion.  He said they had a poor relationship but it improved after her second breakdown.



Closer than WHAT though? It's entirely relative, isn't it.
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Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: What if?
« Reply #84 on: May 31, 2014, 10:42:PM »
Quote from: Patti on May 31, 2014, 10:22:PM
That is correct Alias. Sheila had been admitted to hospital and her doctor told the court that she had left the hospital before her treatment was complete. Thus, meant she was still unable (bless her) to look after the children and was still unable in August of that same year 1985.   :(

She didn't leave before her treatment was complete.  Shortly after she arrived she tried to check herself out but a mental health order was taken out to prevent her relase and she completed her treatment.

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Offline mike tesko

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Re: What if?
« Reply #85 on: May 31, 2014, 10:43:PM »
Quote from: scipio_usmc on May 31, 2014, 10:27:PM
Freddie claimed her situation would deteriorate. Colin stated she was closer to June after her second breakdown and had found religion.  He said they had a poor relationship but it improved after her second breakdown.

Hi scipio_usmc,

so, according to Freddie, Sheila grew closer to June, after Sheila's second breakdown, but that seems not to have made much difference to the state of the relationship between nanni June and the boy victims...
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Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: What if?
« Reply #86 on: May 31, 2014, 10:48:PM »
Quote from: April on May 31, 2014, 10:38:PM


Closer than WHAT though? It's entirely relative, isn't it.

His claim was that they got along better and shared their religion so they had something to bond over for the first time. She neve ratacked june when they didn't get a long at all so it seems liek she would have less reason to do so if they were getting along better.

Moreover, if she did find religion as he claims that is also less reason to kill or commit suicide since both are mortal sins per her religion.     
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Offline mike tesko

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Re: What if?
« Reply #87 on: May 31, 2014, 10:52:PM »
Jeremy could not possibly have known that June intended to visit her sister Pamela, on the day of the shootings to speak about how Sheila was behaving strangely...
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Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: What if?
« Reply #88 on: May 31, 2014, 10:55:PM »
Quote from: mike tesko on May 31, 2014, 10:43:PM
Hi scipio_usmc,

so, according to Freddie, Sheila grew closer to June, after Sheila's second breakdown, but that seems not to have made much difference to the state of the relationship between nanni June and the boy victims...

Growing closer to June didn't help them so naturally they didn't care.  They might even have hated it because Sheila might have tried making them pray too. It is naural for kids to resist praying, going to Church and the like because they are interested in fun and that is work.  One of them hated meat and was forced to eat it there so that is an additional reason not to want to go.  There probably were no kids to play with which would be another.  That's not abuse though it amounts to kids not being happy because they are forced to do things they don't want to do.

What I don't understand is why people think Sheila etched "I hate this place" in wood in the bedroom the boys had been staying in instead of one of the boys given what we know.


 

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Offline Jane

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Re: What if?
« Reply #89 on: May 31, 2014, 10:58:PM »
Quote from: scipio_usmc on May 31, 2014, 10:48:PM
His claim was that they got along better and shared their religion so they had something to bond over for the first time. She neve ratacked june when they didn't get a long at all so it seems liek she would have less reason to do so if they were getting along better.

Moreover, if she did find religion as he claims that is also less reason to kill or commit suicide since both are mortal sins per her religion.   


Whoa! Steady on. I repeat, better than what, and whilst in all probability you're right, I don't believe that there's any way of knowing what their previous had been OR whether one had ever previously struck the other. As for suicide being a mortal sin. I believe the to be the case with Roman Catholics but I have no idea if it applies to Anglo Catholics and I have serious doubts that Sheila, as she veered far more towards the esoteric, was one of their number. Very recently she had believed she was a white witch. I believe Sheila was terrified of not believing in anything, thus confirming that June was right about her being the Devil's child, that she took on board as a safe guard, aspects of all religions.
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