Unidentified Male, seen at Whf, PC Myall, at 3.45am...

[VORTEX]

Vortex. I used to have that same thought.But would that not be very very risky.If JB had decided to call 999 and there was a police car in the vincinity, that could attend quickly ,there would have been a very real risk that the killer could have been spotted or even caught?

I was thinking more of someone else involved trying to get Jeremy over to the house with the Nevill phone call (real time or recorded). Police cars never come quickly in the countryside - you have to be very unlucky / or lucky if you needed them.

[chelmsey]

Vortex. I used to have that same thought.But would that not be very very risky.If JB had decided to call 999 and there was a police car in the vincinity, that could attend quickly ,there would have been a very real risk that the killer could have been spotted or even caught?

I was thinking more of someone else involved trying to get Jeremy over to the house with the Nevill phone call (real time or recorded). Police cars never come quickly in the countryside - you have to be very unlucky / or lucky if you needed them.

Yes,I did realise that you meant as in "a third person".Thats what I meant too.The killer surely couldnt have known for sure that JB would take the bait and that instead of coming to the farm,that he would phone the police instead.In the end,thats exactly what JB did isnt it. Unless if it was a third person,then that was the plan?

[paulg]

Vortex

Whats the motive?

Mr Bamber, ring your step son, and tell him his sister has gone berserk with a gun...or, talk into this recorder and repeat the following....then i'll blow everyones brains out, and make it look like Jeremy's sister killed everyone, then killed herself....but i'm just a lunatic that stumbled on the farmhouse...And the only person to gain anything, is the person that inherits a fortune...oh, but the lunatic had a great time framing Bambers sister.

In the mean time, after making the call, i'll potter about, hoping the police get a chance to see me leaving the scene.

If Jeremy Bamber is going to prove he's innocent, he has to prove his sister did the killings. Having people suggest that a third party was involved, only adds to suspicion that a hit man was hired, and helped to give Jeremy Bamber an alibi via a phone call from the farmhouse.

[paulg]

And, if someone believes that a relative that has now benefitted could have set all this up, consider this.

They would be reliant on access to the rifle, bullets, and getting into the property without waking the family up. If the phone call was to get JB to the house, and kill him also, why not do it earlier that night when he was at the farmhouse.

[bob]

Does it really matter who got there first, and who spotted who?

This unidentified person would of had to know Jeremy Bambers phone number, and have the ability to mimic his step fathers voice... As Jeremy Bambers innocence depends on the ability to prove his sister did the murders, otherwise his story of events are just made up rubbish.

Would he recognise his step fathers voice? yes
Did his step father tell him his sister had gone beserk with a rifle? apparently yes
Would the unidentified male be able to fool his step father that he was Sheila, so much so, that he rang Jeremy convinced that the man in drag was Sheila? Highly unlikely.

Paulg - What about if the unidentified person had a gun to your head and said make this call and say these exact words (could be reading off a script). Risky .....in case they go off script and say the real story of whats going on. If i was the one with the gun in my hand back in 1985 I would have got Nevill to say the words into a cassette recorder and played it down the line as required. This prevents any risk of someone saying exactly whats going on if it dawns on them they are going to die anyway. You have a lot of power over someone with a gun to their head as well as their families. It's the way of modern bank robberies where you target individuals who work there and their families to get the access information etc - look at the Securitas heist in Kent a few years back.

Is this the level of debate/"theory" we have come to?

Jesus H.

Maybe it really is time to sign off 

[paulg]

Sorry mate, just trying to rule out the unidentified male. 

[chelmsey]

A hit-man cant be totally ruled out..........IF JB received a phonecall at all "allegedly" from Ralph,its also possible that it could have been a call from the hit-man telling JB "job done" could it not? There is still NO proof whatsoever if JB did in fact receive a call from Ralph.Im sure that if that was the case then JB would be a free man by now.

[paulg]

Well yes, but if thats the case, then as far as i'm concerned, JB can rot in jail until he dies.

In other words, he's maintained his innocence, in the knowledge that 3 adults, and 2 kids have been murdered whilst they slept...but he hired a hit man.

[chelmsey]

Well yes, but if thats the case, then as far as i'm concerned, JB can rot in jail until he dies.

In other words, he's maintained his innocence, in the knowledge that 3 adults, and 2 kids have been murdered whilst they slept...but he hired a hit man.

I agree Paulg.If that is the case then I will  feel the same way.Trouble is that none of us know for sure either way.Thats what we are all on here for isnt it?To find out the truth.I can understand your frustration because I often feel that way too   

[Reader]

EP went out of their way to try and identify who that male person was

That is exactly the type of language that mike tesko has used previously in reference to what EP did regarding the "hunched up scruffy looking man" allegedly seen walking away from WHF later on. At 03.45, at most three officers were available, and if they failed to identify someone, it wasn't Jeremy, as Pc Saxby knew him. There was nothing they could do at that time to identify someone seen inside the house, so it seems quite possible that 03.45 was simply an incorrectly recorded time at which the "scruffy looking man" was spotted.

[TheBrilliantMistake]

A hit-man cant be totally ruled out..........IF JB received a phonecall at all "allegedly" from Ralph,its also possible that it could have been a call from the hit-man telling JB "job done" could it not? There is still NO proof whatsoever if JB did in fact receive a call from Ralph.Im sure that if that was the case then JB would be a free man by now.

Yep, that's why I've said we can't totally rule it out, it's a theoretical possibility.
I still think it's a hard push to get hit men to kill families though - with 2 kids too. Gangland? yes, but unlikely for a family issue like this (I'd think).

Even if hired by Bamber, he gets the same sentence anyway (but it would be nice to round up a hitman too if there ever was one)

[VORTEX]

Does it really matter who got there first, and who spotted who?

This unidentified person would of had to know Jeremy Bambers phone number, and have the ability to mimic his step fathers voice... As Jeremy Bambers innocence depends on the ability to prove his sister did the murders, otherwise his story of events are just made up rubbish.

Would he recognise his step fathers voice? yes
Did his step father tell him his sister had gone beserk with a rifle? apparently yes
Would the unidentified male be able to fool his step father that he was Sheila, so much so, that he rang


Jeremy convinced that the man in drag was Sheila? Highly unlikely.

Paulg - What about if the unidentified person had a gun to your head and said make this call and say these

exact words (could be reading off a script). Risky .....in case they go off script and say the real story of whats going on. If i was the one with the gun in my hand back in 1985 I would have got Nevill to say the words into a cassette recorder and played it down the line as required. This prevents any risk of someone saying exactly whats going on if it dawns on them they are going to die anyway. You have a lot of power over someone with a gun to their head as well as their families. It's the way of modern bank robberies where you target individuals who work there and their families to get the access information etc - look at the Securitas heist in
Kent a few years back.

Is this the level of debate/"theory" we have come

Jesus H.

Maybe it really is time to sign off 

Hi Bob, in over 25 years nobody has been able to say exactly what happened at WHF that night so what level of theory debate are you looking for? Endless talk of the telephone call / timings or more detail on the silencer? So far it's got us no further forward. So Bob, what do you think actually happened? What's your theory? Do you think Ralph Neville is significant? His car was in the drive that night / morning and returned to SA by September 1985.

Show me some real evidence that would work in a court today that proves JB's guilt (or innocence for that matter while we at it). We won't fall out if I don't agree with your views - I'm much more grown up than that.