Author Topic: The Noble Cause Framing Theory  (Read 65916 times)

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Offline Jane

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Re: The Noble Cause Framing Theory
« Reply #570 on: May 07, 2014, 01:16:PM »
" Skull-Cracker "---------13 life sentences---------Open prison-----------Erm ? Now Escaped !




Lookout, I've opened a new thread for this Off Topic called "Could Someone Please Explain This."

Offline lookout

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Re: The Noble Cause Framing Theory
« Reply #571 on: May 07, 2014, 01:40:PM »
Thankyou,April. Yes,,once,,or is it thrice that I digressed.  ;D

Offline maggie

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Re: The Noble Cause Framing Theory
« Reply #572 on: May 07, 2014, 01:43:PM »
Thankyou,April. Yes,,once,,or is it thrice that I digressed.  ;D
Tut Lookout, naughty, naughty, think I am guilty too!! ;D ;D  sorry April. :'(

Offline susan

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Re: The Noble Cause Framing Theory
« Reply #573 on: May 07, 2014, 01:45:PM »
Maggie/lookout who is a goody two shoes of late MOI ;D ;D ;D

Offline Jane

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Re: The Noble Cause Framing Theory
« Reply #574 on: May 07, 2014, 02:09:PM »
Thankyou,April. Yes,,once,,or is it thrice that I digressed.  ;D



Lookout, it's less to do with digression than that I thought it was important enough to have a thread all to itself.

Offline lookout

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Re: The Noble Cause Framing Theory
« Reply #575 on: May 07, 2014, 02:51:PM »


Lookout, it's less to do with digression than that I thought it was important enough to have a thread all to itself.




Yes,April,,it is important considering Jeremys' plight.

Offline Caroline

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Re: The Noble Cause Framing Theory
« Reply #576 on: May 07, 2014, 04:20:PM »
I believe Granny Speakman was originally led to believe that the WHOLE of the Bamber family had been killed. Does anyone have proof that she was ever actually told that Jeremy survived? She changed her will as per RWB's advice,is it possible that she was deceived? A very good reason for not wanting Colin coming face to face with GS.

I tend to agree with you Tyler.
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Offline Caroline

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Re: The Noble Cause Framing Theory
« Reply #577 on: May 07, 2014, 04:22:PM »
" Skull-Cracker "---------13 life sentences---------Open prison-----------Erm ? Now Escaped !

??  :o :o
Few people have the imagination for reality

Offline Caroline

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Re: The Noble Cause Framing Theory
« Reply #578 on: May 07, 2014, 04:26:PM »



Hi Caroline,,I wouldn't even begin to read his book. My life has stood me in good stead against people like him with their " sob stories ".Can't be doing with them.

A for instance during my nursing career-----------a consultant who thought he was God,,and gave the air that he was above others,,was so well thought of by EVERYONE,bar me,,who used to work for him,,that whatever would be said against him,would duly have been dismissed.
He was a pioneer in his field,,but I was getting vibes that worried me and I couldn't tell anyone,because naturally,they wouldn't have believed little old me.
However as time went on,,I kept picking up " odd " habits with him---------like dipping Kit-Kat biscs. in his chicken soup. Okay,,I thought,,he's developed the " potty professor " syndrome.
To cut a long story short,not forgetting I frequented his office quite regularly ( which was like a bin ) hunting for case notes which were literally all over the place.

I'd mentioned a few things to the manager,subtly,,and as I expected,she shunned whatever I had to say.
I continued to work for this consultant,,and when he went on holiday,,I decided to tidy his office as I went on my daily tasks.
When I was in his office,,there was a knock on the door and I opened it to a patient who was crying her eyes out. With the patient,,was a man,,well suited and booted and carrying a brief case.I explained that Mr X was on holiday,and could I take a message,etc.
No,,said the man,,but we'll be back !

Back from holiday,,Mr X,,was arrested ! I hadn't known the full extent of his offences,,but had had this gut-feeling for a long time.
It turned out that he ended up being one of five serious offenders in the NHS,,along with Allett,Shipman,etc.
The feeling I had at the time was the obvious guilt I'd had at not being believed of my suspicions. He was sent to Strangeways prison and served 6 years. His crime was hypnotising patients and then assaulting them.
He presently lives in Dubai.No NHS pension,and struck off the register.
It makes me feel heartily sick when he was claimed to be a " miracle-worker " at the time,when I knew that something was radically wrong,,but everyone else was taken-in by the fact that he'd developed this pioneering fertility treatment !! Yuk yuk yuk. If I'd have had a gun,,I'd have shot him. He had the ruddy cheek to say,one day," that there was something strange about ME !  ;D  B'stard.

Svengarli!! Sounds like one creepy guy and I guess with his chicken soup, kitkat habit we won't be seeing him on 'Come Dine With Me' any time soon!!
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Offline Alias

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Re: The Noble Cause Framing Theory
« Reply #579 on: May 07, 2014, 06:12:PM »
The rings were still removed against Jeremy´s (the next of kin) wish. And it seems nobody told him that they were removed, which is WRONG.
Jeremy jumping up and down with glee and rubbing his hands??? I call BS on that one! It makes no sense at all
It doesn´t say who removed the rings.
I don´t understand though that Jeremy only learned about this in 2013 - it is in Colin´s book, hasn´t he read it? I find that hard to believe.

P.S. I think Colin was prevented by the relatives from seeing granny Speakman because she thought Jeremy was innocent. That wouldn´t fit with their (obvious) "working on" Colin.

A small correction to my post from earlier today (during lunch break). I read Caroline´s transcript of part of the page in Colin´s book, and it doesn´t mention the undertaker in the transcript.
 
I have just read the page from the book that Caroline later put up, and it does mention the undertaker. It says that he was "upset" by leaving the rings on Jeremy´s parents and Sheila (must include Nevill, Colin writes: His parents and Bambs, so perhaps Nevill wore a wedding band?)  - or what does it say? Colin is a little vague in his wording here, I think.
Why would the undertaker be upset by that - does that even make sense? And as I wrote earlier: Jeremy´s laughing and rubbing his hands with glee makes even less sense!

From what Colin writes, it seems that the rellies thought the rings were on their fingers when they were cremated - and that HE, Colin, told them that the Mr Cock had the jewellery in his safe deposit box. Apparently, Colin writes, the undertaker (on the order of Mr Cock??), had gone behind Jeremy´s back and removed the jewellery after all..... Really??? I mean, REALLY?! Sounds unethical and perhaps even illegal to me.

Then Colin goes on to write that Jeremy might have made a pact with "the dark side" (!!!) and had been afraid that someone by touching the jewellery might "see" the whole scene as it had happened........ - "Occult practice and ritual magic"....... Seems the Sheila not only had a mother who was a religous maniac, but also a husband/ex who had some PRETTY weird thoughts about spirituality.  :o
Now I take Colin´s remark about Jeremy, "studying him to learn how to mimick grief", even less seriously!

Can just see the rellies around that tea table telling Colin about Jeremy´s "transvestite tendencies." Good LORD!
I think we would have heard about Jeremy prancing around the village in women´s clothing from other sources if that had really happened! That is something people would notice and talk about.
I don´t believe this. He had a gay friend, yes. He may be/have been bi-sexual, I don´t know, and it is none of my business. I think the family exaggerated the fact he had a gay friend into this crazy story! Surprised they didn´t say he sat on his tractor every day in a pink tutu.

I have a lot of sympathy for what Colin went through, I can´t even begin to imagine; but this just made me lose a little bit of trust in his judgement overall.

Offline maggie

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Re: The Noble Cause Framing Theory
« Reply #580 on: May 07, 2014, 06:18:PM »
Hi Alias, I am sure I have read a claim somewhere that Jeremy DID sit on his tractor dressed in a tutu or something like that.  Can't remember quite who or why this was said but am pretty sure it was, don't think I have dreamed it.  :-\

Offline Caroline

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Re: The Noble Cause Framing Theory
« Reply #581 on: May 07, 2014, 06:22:PM »
Because I had to find it Grahame - couldn't quite remember where I'd seen it but you're in luck because I have found it. It's from Colin's book and the passage is as follows

(From In Search of the Rainbows End by Colin Caffell Chapter 17, page 172)

On 16th February June's mother Granny Speakman, passed away peacefully, at the age of ninety-five. I was especially sad because since the shootings, Pam had not allowed me to visit her in case I caused a traumatic reminder of her family. That weekend I also went to tea at the Pargeter's, where I met several of Bamb's cousins and learnt a little more about what had been going on - not a lot but a few things finally began falling into place.
They were all as anxious as I was to see the legal proceedings commence but none were looking forward to the committal with any relish. There was, however, one thing they said that afternoon which bothered me; something they had also thought very strange but hadn't yet made a connection. They told me how Jeremy had given instructions that his parents and Bamb;s should be cremated with their rings on, and that once he was satisfied that this has happened he had been laughing and rubbing his hands with glee. The undertaker had apparently been upset at having to do this because it was not a normal procedure at cremations.
'But they weren't destroyed in the cremation' I said And then explained that Neville's executor. Mr Cock, had told me he had them all in his safe. Not knowing of Jeremy's earlier instructions, I had already asked for Bamb's wedding ring. He must have gone behind Jeremy's back and overruled that decision."

Hi Alias, the transcript from the book I typed does mention the undertaker and also mentions why he was upset - it wasn't their usual policy to leave jewellery on the deceased. Mat mentioned that when his gran died, they had to remove the jewellery. So the undertaker probably felt awkward given the circumstances of the Bambers deaths.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2014, 06:24:PM by Caroline »
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Offline Jane

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Re: The Noble Cause Framing Theory
« Reply #582 on: May 07, 2014, 06:28:PM »
Caroline/Martin. I think p.172 revealed much more to me this time round than when I first read it!! I found myself amazed by the amount of "stuff" Colin was told by others. We have the Pargeters telling him that having ascertained that beautiful family jewellery, presumably of some value was going through the cremator, Jeremy "laughed and rubbed his hands with glee"!!!! (THIS from  the guy who was grabbing everything possible to SELL) I'm tempted to say it was Dickensian but I'm more inclined to think it has a Boutflour/Eaton ring to it...................as does the suggestion of transvestitism. Also of interest is Colin's concern that Jeremy had made some "Faustian pact" with his dark side. Such hypocrisy from someone who, along with Sheila, clearly dabbled in the arcane arts via the tarots. I don't imagine Jeremy knew MANY who did.


Alias, forgive me for blowing my own trumpet, but the above is what I posted earlier. The more I think about it, frankly the more I wonder what Colin was on to encourage his mentally ill wife into the use of the occult, however benign the tarot might be. This, I have to confess, isn't the view I held back in the 90's when I was in no way averse to using the tarot, however, I wasn't mentally fragile. NOW, I can quite see that June and Nevill might have had serious misgivings about Colin's influence on Sheila.

I was interested/AMUSED that Pam refused to let Colin see Granny Speakman, supposedly because he may remind her of the past. Equally as likely, I imagine, that Granny, a hell fires and brimstone Christian, whose God smote all and sundry, saw Colin as something conjured up by the Devil , who was responsible for her granddaughters further fall from grace and possibly the cause of her strange behaviour.

It is also worth noting that ANY foray into the dark arts can have the most CATASTROPHIC effect on those who are mentally ill.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2014, 07:06:PM by Caroline »

Offline Jane

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Re: The Noble Cause Framing Theory
« Reply #583 on: May 07, 2014, 06:36:PM »
ONE reason the undertaker may have been concerned is that diamonds burn at 800 degrees C and a cremator reaches 900 degrees C. An horrendous waste but, arguably, not his decision to make.

Offline Jane

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Re: The Noble Cause Framing Theory
« Reply #584 on: May 07, 2014, 06:43:PM »
It has just occurred to me that the possible removal of rings by EP caused us to give them a real, albeit, unheard, ear-bashing. Is it my imagination that we are no longer as insensed, and it isn't quite as important now we know it was a joint (illegal?) effort by the undertaker and BC?