Author Topic: What REALLY Convinces You That Jeremy Is Innocent/Guilty?  (Read 63964 times)

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Offline Jane

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Re: What REALLY Convinces You That Jeremy Is Innocent/Guilty?
« Reply #525 on: May 17, 2014, 08:38:PM »
It is not logical at all. It is very illogical that Jeremy would choose to "drag" Sheila into the bloodfilled room with her heavily bloodstained, dead mother. It would upset her immensely - a very stupid move of Jeremy in fact. All that for some flimsy, unclear "staging".
I find this to be a problem for the nons, which has never been addressed properly. Not to my satisfaction anyway.

You are dismissing that Sheila was gravely mentally ill. She attacked the Meter Man who got very scared of her. She was not in a stable, calm state during this period as you try to make it seem.

You have to twist and bend a little here and a little there to make things fit. That is a fact.

P.S. I don´t mention her running screaming from the monastary the previous day. I am not sure where that rumour comes from. Perhaps it is more than a rumour, I just don´t know where it stems from. Anybody?


No rumour Alias. It happened and it is MILES from WHF to the monastery and unless she hitched a ride she could only have got there on foot.

Offline Alias

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Re: What REALLY Convinces You That Jeremy Is Innocent/Guilty?
« Reply #526 on: May 17, 2014, 08:46:PM »
He must have tiptoed through all the blood since he left no footprints and absolutely no forensic evidence was found on him, in WHF or even at his own house. For a foolish man he must have been very smart?

The lack of bloodied footprints have always baffled me. But then, did the EP even look for any? Did they photograph all bloodstains found scattered about the house?

Offline Alias

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Re: What REALLY Convinces You That Jeremy Is Innocent/Guilty?
« Reply #527 on: May 17, 2014, 08:47:PM »

No rumour Alias. It happened and it is MILES from WHF to the monastery and unless she hitched a ride she could only have got there on foot.

Who saw her?

Offline Jan

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Re: What REALLY Convinces You That Jeremy Is Innocent/Guilty?
« Reply #528 on: May 17, 2014, 08:50:PM »
A great deal.  It is unlikely for someone on tranquilizers to wake up, be distrubed by absolutely nothing because everyone else is asleep and then to go bezerk.

 

you don't even know if she went to sleep

Offline Alias

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Re: What REALLY Convinces You That Jeremy Is Innocent/Guilty?
« Reply #529 on: May 17, 2014, 08:52:PM »
you don't even know if she went to sleep

Scipio, what do you make of the state of Sheila´s bed? I posted a photo. You said earlier that Jeremy went into her room, woke her up and dragged her to June and Nevill´s bedroom. Did Jeremy wait for Sheila to make the bed, or did he make the bed?

Offline Caroline

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Re: What REALLY Convinces You That Jeremy Is Innocent/Guilty?
« Reply #530 on: May 17, 2014, 08:53:PM »
A great deal.  It is unlikely for someone on tranquilizers to wake up, be distrubed by absolutely nothing because everyone else is asleep and then to go bezerk.

 

So, a bed that doesn't look slept in must have been slept in? And Neville must have been shot in bed even though there is no blood on his side? Don't you think you're simply pushing the pieces into holes that don't fit because they coincide with your view? (Obviously you're going to say no).
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Offline Jane

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Re: What REALLY Convinces You That Jeremy Is Innocent/Guilty?
« Reply #531 on: May 17, 2014, 08:57:PM »
Who saw her?


Alias, I think there's a WS in archives.

Offline Alias

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Re: What REALLY Convinces You That Jeremy Is Innocent/Guilty?
« Reply #532 on: May 17, 2014, 08:59:PM »

Alias, I think there's a WS in archives.

OK - not goint to read through them now, I trust you! So that shows further that Sheila was far from being stable during her last stay at WHF.

Offline Jane

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Re: What REALLY Convinces You That Jeremy Is Innocent/Guilty?
« Reply #533 on: May 17, 2014, 09:00:PM »
The lack of bloodied footprints have always baffled me. But then, did the EP even look for any? Did they photograph all bloodstains found scattered about the house?



One imagines they'd have clod hopped blood all over the house. How could they have avoided it?

Offline Alias

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Re: What REALLY Convinces You That Jeremy Is Innocent/Guilty?
« Reply #534 on: May 17, 2014, 09:05:PM »


One imagines they'd have clod hopped blood all over the house. How could they have avoided it?

I have no idea. At least from the few photos we have, we cannot see any; but I have never heard the mention of any type of footprints at WHF. A bit of a mystery.

Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: What REALLY Convinces You That Jeremy Is Innocent/Guilty?
« Reply #535 on: May 17, 2014, 09:12:PM »
I would like to hear scipio´s take on the state of Sheila´s bed. Can´t deal with your fantasies anymore, Adam, sorry.

She could have slept on top or it could have been made to give the impression she didn't sleep that night.  She was in her nightgown so obviously ready for bed.  If she were planning to kill anyone I would expect her to put on something easier to move in and not stay barefoot. 

If we want to investigate in detail we would need to know more about her habits to see if she did often or at least sometimes sleep on top. I doubt many people knew her habits because who used to go watch her sleeping?  You check in on kids, who checks in on an adult?  For many years I slept on my bed. If you do it always it should wear the comforter if you don't change it.  If you you do it sporadically when it is warm or change the comforter around or even put on a different comforter it might not show a pattern.  She didn't sleep at WHF but 3 days so not long enough to leave any tell tale signs one way or the other.     

The bottom line is that Jeremy might have staged it like he staged other things or might not have we just don't have enough information to know.  If someone reliable said she would never sleep on covers and had to be under sheets no matte rwhat then that would suggest the scene was staged and the bed made.

Given the different possiiblities this issue is not dispositive anymore than a bucket with 2 pairs of soaking panties is.  That is why I don't suggest this as more evidence of Jeremy staging the scene, there isn't enough evidence to suggest it is more likely that he staged it than that she just slept on top.  I would expect that if Jeremy were staging it he would make the bed flawless so it didn't look like she was even sitting on it. It was not made perfectly though someone could have been sitting on it so I'm not going to chalk it up as proof Jeremy staged it.

Making sure he didn't kill her in bed and that she was killed outside her room I do think was staging.  He wanted it to look like she shot June and then herself.  Nevill going downstairs actually screwed things up in a number of respects and so did the shot to his voicebox. People worry about minor details but the bigger things that can end up happeing often spoil it. Especially if you don't appreciate the scientific implications of various things.

Jeremy overengineered some aspects like the phone call but failed to adequately consider others.

I would have staged it as a break in so that there was a possiiblity of anyone doing it.  I would have made sure to shoot and kill Nevill first because he was the most dangerous and then to shoot June. I would have shouted to get the boys to come to the hall, blocked the stairs and shot them or marched them form their rooms to shoot them and then to kill Sheila in the hall. In this manner it appears thecrook was discovered by the husband and wife and killed then the rest of the house woke up as the killer was trying to run away and then had to shoot them too.  Executing everyone in bed is a sign of an execution.  A crook need not kill everyone who is sleeping they get out of there and just kill whoever gets in their way.  So the goal is to make it look not like an assassinaion.

Of course if you end up getting blood spatter on your body or clothes or having possession of the murder weapon you are toast but it is hard for there to even be a search warrant executed if you stage the crime right. 

Sheila would have made a better patsy if she had not been on medication that was being injected by doctors but even then there are more ways to mess up like the suppressor ended up being and you still look like you are framing her if you claim to be a witness against her.  Make cops find her and draw their own conclusions. Feeding the flames and claiming the victims called you to tell you what happened is not sound. It makes you involved and that is not what you want.  You want to be totally uninvolved and to know nothing.   

Police have a hard time pinning anything on you under those circumstances.
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Offline Alias

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Re: What REALLY Convinces You That Jeremy Is Innocent/Guilty?
« Reply #536 on: May 17, 2014, 09:24:PM »
She could have slept on top or it could have been made to give the impression she didn't sleep that night.  She was in her nightgown so obviously ready for bed.  If she were planning to kill anyone I would expect her to put on something easier to move in and not stay barefoot. 

If we want to investigate in detail we would need to know more about her habits to see if she did often or at least sometimes sleep on top. I doubt many people knew her habits because who used to go watch her sleeping?  You check in on kids, who checks in on an adult?  For many years I slept on my bed. If you do it always it should wear the comforter if you don't change it.  If you you do it sporadically when it is warm or change the comforter around or even put on a different comforter it might not show a pattern.  She didn't sleep at WHF but 3 days so not long enough to leave any tell tale signs one way or the other.     

The bottom line is that Jeremy might have staged it like he staged other things or might not have we just don't have enough information to know.  If someone reliable said she would never sleep on covers and had to be under sheets no matte rwhat then that would suggest the scene was staged and the bed made.

Given the different possiiblities this issue is not dispositive anymore than a bucket with 2 pairs of soaking panties is.  That is why I don't suggest this as more evidence of Jeremy staging the scene, there isn't enough evidence to suggest it is more likely that he staged it than that she just slept on top.  I would expect that if Jeremy were staging it he would make the bed flawless so it didn't look like she was even sitting on it. It was not made perfectly though someone could have been sitting on it so I'm not going to chalk it up as proof Jeremy staged it.

Making sure he didn't kill her in bed and that she was killed outside her room I do think was staging.  He wanted it to look like she shot June and then herself.  Nevill going downstairs actually screwed things up in a number of respects and so did the shot to his voicebox. People worry about minor details but the bigger things that can end up happeing often spoil it. Especially if you don't appreciate the scientific implications of various things.

Jeremy overengineered some aspects like the phone call but failed to adequately consider others.

I would have staged it as a break in so that there was a possiiblity of anyone doing it.  I would have made sure to shoot and kill Nevill first because he was the most dangerous and then to shoot June. I would have shouted to get the boys to come to the hall, blocked the stairs and shot them or marched them form their rooms to shoot them and then to kill Sheila in the hall. In this manner it appears thecrook was discovered by the husband and wife and killed then the rest of the house woke up as the killer was trying to run away and then had to shoot them too.  Executing everyone in bed is a sign of an execution.  A crook need not kill everyone who is sleeping they get out of there and just kill whoever gets in their way.  So the goal is to make it look not like an assassinaion.

Of course if you end up getting blood spatter on your body or clothes or having possession of the murder weapon you are toast but it is hard for there to even be a search warrant executed if you stage the crime right. 

Sheila would have made a better patsy if she had not been on medication that was being injected by doctors but even then there are more ways to mess up like the suppressor ended up being and you still look like you are framing her if you claim to be a witness against her.  Make cops find her and draw their own conclusions. Feeding the flames and claiming the victims called you to tell you what happened is not sound. It makes you involved and that is not what you want.  You want to be totally uninvolved and to know nothing.   

Police have a hard time pinning anything on you under those circumstances.

Glad you were not the killer - that was cruel and hard to read.  :'(

I think we can discard the theory that Jeremy made the bed - it has been used, just not the covers Jeremy would have made it look like no one had been on/in the bed.
Personally I have never come across anyone who went to sleep for the night on top of the covers. Perhaps during heat waves, you just use a sheet - or nothing; but there was no heatwave, it wasn´t that warm at all. June and Nevill slept with big covers.

I find that my suggestion that Sheila was restless that night to be more plausible.

Offline Jane

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Re: What REALLY Convinces You That Jeremy Is Innocent/Guilty?
« Reply #537 on: May 17, 2014, 09:25:PM »
Just thought I'd tell you Scipio. It's nearly 9.30 and I can still see perfectly clearly outside but the squirrels have gone to bed.

Offline Caroline

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Re: What REALLY Convinces You That Jeremy Is Innocent/Guilty?
« Reply #538 on: May 17, 2014, 09:26:PM »
Just thought I'd tell you Scipio. It's nearly 9.30 and I can still see perfectly clearly outside but the squirrels have gone to bed.

Just seen some rabbits!! (Hey just sayin!)  ;D
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Offline scipio_usmc

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Re: What REALLY Convinces You That Jeremy Is Innocent/Guilty?
« Reply #539 on: May 17, 2014, 09:32:PM »
The lack of bloodied footprints have always baffled me. But then, did the EP even look for any? Did they photograph all bloodstains found scattered about the house?

If you step in a pool of blood then of course it will get on the bottom of your shoes and leave a print as it wipes off.  If you avoid a pool of blood it is not likely or hard to tell depending on the surface you are wlaking on after and epending on jus how much of your show gets in blood.  If you have bare feet you have a much greater chance of the blood sticking and leaving a mark that can be found. If there is alot of blood pooled around then it is of course much harder to avoid stepping in.   

Even in stabbbings with sizable volumes of blood there will not necessarily be any prints found any plenty of times only a single fingerprint or single footprint and nothing more.  Prints are made only under certain conditions, cna be covere dup by something else and are not always easy to recognize.  They don't always happen.   Gloves are obviously the easiest way to avoid prints but there are others.  Alot of times though they are left through stupidity, like someone deciding to wash blood off their hand with something out of habit instead of waiting to washing in the sink only. They often don't even realize they did it the one time and that is what sinks them. 

Sheila would not necessarily have left any bloody prints though she would have been far more likely than Jeremy since she would not have been using gloves like he did) but would have had high velocity spatter of the victims on her if she had committed the murders (plus spatter from Nevill's beating). So would Jeremy which seems to explain the gap between calling Julie and police.  He likely washed up and changed. I don't think he would have been stupid enough to not change and wash up but since police never inspected his clothing or body we can never know for sure.   

 


 
Politeness is organized indifference- Paul Valéry