Author Topic: Confidential Information, I can now reveal that destroys credibility of silencer  (Read 11591 times)

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Offline mike tesko

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You've also attributed to an informant the theory that the police fired additional bullets into Nevill and June after they were declared to be dead, yet you later referred to these shootings by the police as "murder", which was not what you were told. The term "murder" wouldn't apply in those circumstances.

Hi Reader,

Informant said Ralph and June were not actually dead at the time the police surgeon Dr Craig pronounced everyone as being dead at 8.44am, so when police discharged additional bullets into them, police effectively murdered them, and Sheila...
« Last Edit: March 20, 2014, 04:30:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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You posted Shaw's assertion, "The Anschutz rifle was responsible for inflicting the first, non-fatal wound (bullet PV/20)."

More recently, though, you've put forward the theory, based on information from an informant, that the non-fatal wound was inflicted by Peter Woodcock, using a police firearm (that just happened to be a .22 rifle).

Hi Reader,

Yes, David Shaws account in his manuscript identifies the anshulz rifle as the weapon leaning against the bedroom window, and that another weapon which was to hand downstairs in the kitchen was used at the time of the initial shot into Sheila's neck. As far as I know, Shaw made it clear that police had not shot anyone during the seige or after they got into the house. On the other hand, another informant is adamant that police were responsible for killing Sheila upstairs in the bedroom, after the police surgeon, Dr Craig, had declared her to be dead, with what appeared to be a solitary wound on her throat at 8.44am...

If Sheila's neck had been bleeding as shown in one of the photographs which shows blood running from two wounds, Dr Craig wouldn't have been if any doubts how whether or not she had just the one bullet wound or two...

The bleeding occurred after Dr Craig had already pronounced Sheila as being dead at 8.44am...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline Reader

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Shaw wasn't at the scene. If his theory is incorrect, his supposedly "evidence-based" analysis was severely flawed and hence needs to be redone... and all the rest of his arguments would need to be checked as well.

Offline mike tesko

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Shaw wasn't at the scene. If his theory is incorrect, his supposedly "evidence-based" analysis was severely flawed and hence needs to be redone... and all the rest of his arguments would need to be checked as well.

Hi Reader,

David Shaw never claimed to have been present at the scene (although it's possible he might have been). I was under the impression that Shaw was a close associate of the officers who did attend the incident at the material time, and that he visited the scene at some stage prior to his manuscript being written up, in the company of police officers who were involved in the actual operation on the day in question (7th August 1985). I can only speculate as to the identity of the police officer that Shaw attended the scene with, but at a guess I would say that it could have been former DCS 'Mick' Ainsley, who was head of the second part of the investigation (SC/786/85), when it changed into a full scale murder inquiry in September 1985 - Ainsley, upon retiring from police service was given a job as a security advisor at Osea Road caravan park by the relatives, and so this makes me think that Shaw was a close associate or friend of his, and that he got most of the information from him, as well as other officers, he had spoken to...

Because Shaw is adamant that police did not shoot anybody at all during the siege and afters, when entry was gained, or 'FAMILIARS' were undertaken, falls short of the truth, since I know with 100% certainty that the second shot under Sheila's chin, the one which effectively killed her, was inflicted after the police surgeon, Dr Craig pronounced her as being dead at the scene at 8.44am. I know this because I have seen the photographs of Sheila on the bed at the time she only has one bullet hole in her neck. I have seen what Dr Craig saw when he viewed her body on the far side of the bed, with (as he said) what appears to be a solitary bullet wound to her throat. Those photographs do not show any of the blood running or leaking or pouring from that solitary bullet wound in her throat at that stage, so I know without having to rely upon Shaw or anybody else for that matter, that police did shoot and kill Sheila in the bedroom after that photograph of her on the bed was taken. I also know without being prompted by anyone else that SOCO have lied about the timing when key photographs at the scene that morning were taken, I do not need to be told by anyone that SOC took control of the crime scene at 10 O'clock that morning, despite one or more SOCO being present at the scene from as early as 8.30am, with Cook and the others arriving at 9.20am - so, if you believe that SOCO stood around idly outside whf until 10 O'clock, whilst everybody and everyone entered the crime scene disturbing the bodies and the evidence, or whatever, surely that couldn't have happened, police are lying, and have lied about this / that...

Back to Shaws account, I think there are many truths in what he says, perhaps he even believes what he has written about, maybe not, but I for one value what he has had the courage to draw everyone's attention to. I do not think he needs to re-write any part of his manuscript, it is an historical account of the investigation, from his vantage point, based upon what he has been told by police officers, or a police officer who was in the know, which has helped to uncover further truths which perhaps Shaw had no knowledge of, or if he did, it begs the question, why has he deliberately chosen to mislead everybody into thinking police had not fired any shots after entering the premises, when they did or had done...

I agree with you that everything Shaw has written about needs to be rechecked, and for my part that is precisely what I have been trying to do, as I am sure others have been doing...

Blood which is shown to be leaking from the corners of Sheila's mouth, and nostrils, into her eye socket occurred once the fatal shot under the chin (PV/19) had been inflicted, she was not stood up or leaning backwards at the time that fatal shot was discharged under her chin into her brain, she was laid down, and after the police shot her, they moved her body, lifted and twisted it, causing the blood to flow in the directions it has done. If you look closely at the initial bullet wound (with the feint so called vertical dried bloodstain), the blood from that first wound does not flow in the same directions as the blood from the second wound. This indicates that there was a considerable delay, between the first and second shots having been discharged into her neck / throat / under her chin...

Police shot and killed Sheila, police stage managed her body in time for PC Bird to photograph her body on the bedroom floor with two bullet holes in her throat, and the rifle from the bedroom window atop her body, with her arms and hands arranged conveniently upon and around the gun, to promote the idea that she had taken her own life after whatever else she may have been responsible for doing beforehand...

One thing I know with 100% certainty, is that Sheila may have intended to take her own life, but she didn't actually do it, and Jeremy will find it difficult to persuade anybody that Sheila committed suicide, if she didn't. However, I do feel that it will be possible for him to discredit the silencer evidence, which was a key exhibit in the prosecutions case brought against him...

Hope this helps...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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If you press the end of a silencer into the surface of the victims skin whilst the victim is still alive it produces a circular impression which may produce a feint circular bruising mark should the victim die shortly afterwards:-

Such a mark exists around the lower neck bullet wound entry hole, but none is present around the fatal shot beneath the chin:-
« Last Edit: March 22, 2014, 08:41:AM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline grahameb

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If you press the end of a silencer into the surface of the victims skin whilst the victim is still alive it produces a circular impression which may produce a feint circular bruising mark should the victim die shortly afterwards:-

Such a mark exists around the lower neck bullet wound entry hole, but none is present around the fatal shot beneath the chin:-
That unfortunately points to another assailant. Which the guilters will interpret as being Bamber.

Offline mike tesko

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That unfortunately points to another assailant. Which the guilters will interpret as being Bamber.

Hi Grahame,

Presence of mark around non fatal wound to neck, and absence of a similar matk around fatal wound, suggests that silencer was not fitted to barrel of rifle when Sheila was killed.There is a distinction between a silencer on the gun when the original non fatal shot was inflicted, but not fitted when the second fatal shot was made. Since, the first shot did not kill her...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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Hi Grahame,

Presence of mark around non fatal wound to neck, and absence of a similar matk around fatal wound, suggests that silencer was not fitted to barrel of rifle when Sheila was killed.There is a distinction between a silencer on the gun when the original non fatal shot was inflicted, but not fitted when the second fatal shot was made. Since, the first shot did not kill her...

Add into this equation, the fact that the original badly fragmented bullet (PV/20) became transformed into a whole bullet, so that the ballistic expert could link both of the bullets (PV/20 and PV/19) to the anshulz rifle...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline lookout

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It's very suspect,Mike,,seeing that Sheilas' "attempt" at suicide by self- inflicting the first time,,didn't have the desired effect,,but whoever fired that second shot ( and I believe that it WAS fired from close quarters,though not by her own hand ) saw to it that the poor woman was indeed dead.

Offline mike tesko

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It's very suspect,Mike,,seeing that Sheilas' "attempt" at suicide by self- inflicting the first time,,didn't have the desired effect,,but whoever fired that second shot ( and I believe that it WAS fired from close quarters,though not by her own hand ) saw to it that the poor woman was indeed dead.

Hi Lookout,

Yes, the second shot was the fatal shot that killed her...

The first shot, which produced the mark around the initial entry wound, is the badly fragmented (Pv/20) bullet, that grew into a whole bullet, making it possible to put the argument that both bullets had been fired from the same rifle...

What we have got, are two shots, one where there are two different features, that does not apply to the second, for example, PV/20, which involves use of a silencer, and the need to tamper with the bullet itself. If the substitution of the original badly fragmented bullet had not taken place, the prosecution would not have been able to argue that both bullets had been fired by the same gun...

The circular mark around the first entry wound, and an absence of such a mark around the second wound, would have become a telling feature for being able to argue that two different weapons had fired the two shots, sustained by Sheila...
« Last Edit: March 22, 2014, 04:29:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline Alias

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Hi Lookout,

Yes, the second shot was the fatal shot that killed her...

The first shot, which produced the mark around the initial entry wound, is the badly fragmented (Pv/20) bullet, that grew into a whole bullet, making it possible to put the argument that both bullets had been fired from the same rifle...

What we have got, are two shots, one where there are two different features, that does not apply to the second, for example, PV/20, which involves use of a silencer, and the need to tamper with the bullet itself. If the substitution of the original badly fragmented bullet had not taken place, the prosecution would not have been able to argue that both bullets had been fired by the same gun...

The circular mark around the first entry wound, and an absence of such a mark around the second wound, would have become a telling feature for being able to argue that two different weapons had fired the two shots, sustained by Sheila...

If that is the case (I am not sure I believe it is), then personally I have to conclude that Jeremy was the killer.

Offline mike tesko

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If that is the case (I am not sure I believe it is), then personally I have to conclude that Jeremy was the killer.

Hi Alias,

If what you think is true, why did police swap over the original badly fragmented bullet PV/20, and replace it with a whole bullet, so they could make out a case for the two bullets subject of Sheila's injuries being fired by the same rifle - why did they have to swap the bullet to make out that case, if Jeremy was the killer?
« Last Edit: March 22, 2014, 06:55:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline Alias

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Hi Alias,

If what you think is true, why did police swap over the original badly fragmented bullet PV/20, and replace it with a whole bullet, so they could make out a case for the two bullets subject of Sheila's injuries being fired by the same rifle - why did they have to swap the bullet to make out that case, if Jeremy was the killer?

I don´t know. I just know that I cannot make myself believe that the police shot Sheila - or anybody else. I know you think they did, I just can´t.

Offline mike tesko

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I don´t know. I just know that I cannot make myself believe that the police shot Sheila - or anybody else. I know you think they did, I just can´t.

Hi Alias,

Do you think it matters, that police swapped over the original badly fragmented bullet (PV/20) and replaced it with a whole test fired one, so that police could make out a case for the same rifle to have fired both of the bullets inflicted?
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline Alias

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Hi Alias,

Do you think it matters, that police swapped over the original badly fragmented bullet (PV/20) and replaced it with a whole test fired one, so that police could make out a case for the same rifle to have fired both of the bullets inflicted?

Sure.