Author Topic: Essex police accepted call was made from Whf...  (Read 44039 times)

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Offline mike tesko

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Re: Essex police accepted call was made from Whf...
« Reply #120 on: March 15, 2011, 09:27:PM »
They moved all the timings of the phone calls around, to make it appear as though Jeremy had been lying about the phone call he received from his father at whf, and the call he made to the police, and the call he made to his girlfriend...

EP know that a call was made from the scene to JB's cottage, and they know that there was someone alive inside whf at 3:45am, described by PC Myall as an unidentified male, who was suspect number one, that EP tried to identify as the hitman......

In your opinion ...
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and supported by an entry in the major incident project document which was produced by EP...

entry (1) 03:45am, PC Myall sees unidentified male at whf
« Last Edit: March 15, 2011, 09:28:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline Kaldin

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Re: Essex police accepted call was made from Whf...
« Reply #121 on: March 15, 2011, 09:31:PM »
... Unless, RB made an earlier call, before JB to the police - and if, MB did not make the notes up for the 3.26am log, until later (I do not think the photocopy of the 3.26am phone message that was copied on the reverse of the 4.02am log was genuinely written up, as claimed, I think its been modified to try and make it fit the prosecutions case) - in other words, it doesn't mean what the prosecution suggest it means at all, its a forgery...

We've been here before though haven't we?

In this alleged call from Nevill to JB, Nevill didn't tell JB that he had already called the police, as stated by JB. If Nevill had already called the police he would not withold that information during the call to JB.
The copy of one call log on the back of another was just that, a photocopy, given out at trial. The originals were not on the reverse sides of a single piece of paper.

What do you base your accusation that a document has been modified or forged, and when did this allegedly take place?

How do you know that for certain?
-------------------------------------

It's a forgery because one side of the document is an original, relating to a different log from the scene starting at 4:02am, whilst on the reverse side, is a photocopy of the phone message log timed at 3:26am - you can't have an original on one side and a copy on the other, both sides should be original contents...

Let's be clear about what you're saying here. You're saying that the document which contained these words was in court for everyone to see?

Quote
05.25               Firearms team are in conversation with a person from inside the farm



Offline mike tesko

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Re: Essex police accepted call was made from Whf...
« Reply #122 on: March 15, 2011, 09:33:PM »
You can't have 12 originals handed to each jury member. There was not an original document with another document copied on its reverse.
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The truth is there was nothing on the reverse of the 4:02am, log from the scene - but a copy of the phone message log timed at 3:26am, was photocopied onto the reverse of the former, and stamped by the official crown court stamp as though both logs had been disclosed but we now know that even the prosecution confirm that they knew nothing about the 3:26am, log, at the time of the trial - so, where does that leave your theory?

The jury never got to see the photocopy details of the 3:26am, phone message log details, nobody did, it was not an official exhibit - you need an original document to make it an exhibit at crown court, and since no original was disclosed or produced, a photocopy would not suffice without there having been legal argument...

Phone log details timed at 3:26am, amount to a forgery if they were copied onto the reverse of another log, and someone is / was claiming the copy to be an original, when it clearly was / is not...

Would you like to comment on this thread, which was moved here from the jeremybamber.com site? It has a different version to yours.

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,380.0.html
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I was not the author of that posting...

I know that, but the author appears to have information about that document, so how come you and that person are saying different things?
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That person is describing what the situation was at the time of the trial, whereas I am describing what took place after the trial, to make it look like it was all part of the same document at the time of the trial...

It seems to me that the person who wrote that explanation is saying that Malcolm Bonnet wrote his log of what happened at the scene on the reverse side of his phone log. Is that a correct interpretation?
....

No, I don't think it is saying that, I think it is saying that the details were copied onto the reverse of another log...

Let's look at it again.

Quote
However neither the police or the prosecution intended page one of the Wireless Message Log to be seen by the defence, the judge or the jury and according to the 2004 Witness Statements none of them did see it. The only reason it came to be in court at all was because it had been written or re-written onto the back of the Essex Police Telephone Communication Log. This document was photocopied and distributed to everyone in court but the reverse side containing the information from a page of the Wireless Message Log was not. Quite why this Wireless Message Log appears on the reverse of an unrelated document and not on the proper form like the other fourteen pages of the Wireless Message Log is yet another unexplained anomaly in this case.

He's saying that Malcolm Bonnet's log of the phone call was in court and it was copied and handed out to everyone, but that the first page of the log of the scene was not - in my opinion.
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I think this post by this other person, is trying to make reference to the fact that the contents of the 4:02 log from the scene, does not include the original comments which were passed from the scene by PC Myall, when Myall, Bews and Bamber, returned to the patrol car (CA07) which was parked up in Pages lane, after they had returned there from seeing the figure at the bedroom window - there is nothing in that log about requesting the firearms officers to be deployed, and the reasons for the firearms officers needing to be deployed...

A suggestion that those contents are a forgery...

in my opinion...
« Last Edit: March 15, 2011, 09:35:PM by mike tesko »
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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Re: Essex police accepted call was made from Whf...
« Reply #123 on: March 15, 2011, 09:34:PM »
... Unless, RB made an earlier call, before JB to the police - and if, MB did not make the notes up for the 3.26am log, until later (I do not think the photocopy of the 3.26am phone message that was copied on the reverse of the 4.02am log was genuinely written up, as claimed, I think its been modified to try and make it fit the prosecutions case) - in other words, it doesn't mean what the prosecution suggest it means at all, its a forgery...

We've been here before though haven't we?

In this alleged call from Nevill to JB, Nevill didn't tell JB that he had already called the police, as stated by JB. If Nevill had already called the police he would not withold that information during the call to JB.
The copy of one call log on the back of another was just that, a photocopy, given out at trial. The originals were not on the reverse sides of a single piece of paper.

What do you base your accusation that a document has been modified or forged, and when did this allegedly take place?

How do you know that for certain?
-------------------------------------

It's a forgery because one side of the document is an original, relating to a different log from the scene starting at 4:02am, whilst on the reverse side, is a photocopy of the phone message log timed at 3:26am - you can't have an original on one side and a copy on the other, both sides should be original contents...

Let's be clear about what you're saying here. You're saying that the document which contained these words was in court for everyone to see?

Quote
05.25               Firearms team are in conversation with a person from inside the farm
--------------

Are you attributing comments made by others, to me?
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline Kaldin

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Re: Essex police accepted call was made from Whf...
« Reply #124 on: March 15, 2011, 09:35:PM »
Look, if Malcolm Bonnet's log was photocopied onto the other side of another original log, that means the original log must have been put into the paper-in compartment of the copier, and Malcolm Bonnet's log must have put onto the glass sheet on the top of the copier. Then the copy button would be pressed, and the Bonnet log would appear as a copy on the other side of the other original log.

Can anyone tell me why someone would do that?
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Well, first of all, what you are saying is not strictly true, you could place a copy onto the glass of the photocopier and copy that, so I don't know where you are getting your information from, but I think your just speculating - and if somebody went to the trouble of copying an original in the circumstances you have explained, why not simply produce the original, and let the prosecutor know that it is being made an official exhibit?  Unless of course, there was some information on the reverse side of the original that was being copied, that somebody did not want anyone to see...

I wonder what was on the reverse of the original document - more information confirming that a call was made by Ralph Bamber ten minutes or so before the one received from the son, I should think?

Why else not disclose or make the original available?

No. You said this.

Quote
It's a forgery because one side of the document is an original, relating to a different log from the scene starting at 4:02am, whilst on the reverse side, is a photocopy of the phone message log timed at 3:26am - you can't have an original on one side and a copy on the other, both sides should be original contents...

So you're saying that the original of the police log of the scene had a photocopy of the phone log on the other side. In order for that to happen you'd have to feed the original through the copier. Nobody would do that.

Offline jon

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Re: Essex police accepted call was made from Whf...
« Reply #125 on: March 15, 2011, 09:36:PM »
Mike are you aware of what document's JB thinks were forged or altered now ?

Offline Kaldin

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Re: Essex police accepted call was made from Whf...
« Reply #126 on: March 15, 2011, 09:36:PM »
... Unless, RB made an earlier call, before JB to the police - and if, MB did not make the notes up for the 3.26am log, until later (I do not think the photocopy of the 3.26am phone message that was copied on the reverse of the 4.02am log was genuinely written up, as claimed, I think its been modified to try and make it fit the prosecutions case) - in other words, it doesn't mean what the prosecution suggest it means at all, its a forgery...

We've been here before though haven't we?

In this alleged call from Nevill to JB, Nevill didn't tell JB that he had already called the police, as stated by JB. If Nevill had already called the police he would not withold that information during the call to JB.
The copy of one call log on the back of another was just that, a photocopy, given out at trial. The originals were not on the reverse sides of a single piece of paper.

What do you base your accusation that a document has been modified or forged, and when did this allegedly take place?

How do you know that for certain?
-------------------------------------

It's a forgery because one side of the document is an original, relating to a different log from the scene starting at 4:02am, whilst on the reverse side, is a photocopy of the phone message log timed at 3:26am - you can't have an original on one side and a copy on the other, both sides should be original contents...

Let's be clear about what you're saying here. You're saying that the document which contained these words was in court for everyone to see?

Quote
05.25               Firearms team are in conversation with a person from inside the farm
--------------

Are you attributing comments made by others, to me?

No. You said this:

Quote
It's a forgery because one side of the document is an original, relating to a different log from the scene starting at 4:02am ...


The log you're referring to contained the words I just quoted, right?

Offline Kaldin

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Re: Essex police accepted call was made from Whf...
« Reply #127 on: March 15, 2011, 09:37:PM »
Mike, could you please post the document which you say had Malcolm Bonnet's log of the phone call copied onto the back of it?

Offline mike tesko

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Re: Essex police accepted call was made from Whf...
« Reply #128 on: March 15, 2011, 09:39:PM »
Mike are you aware of what document's JB thinks were forged or altered now ?
.................

Yes, of course...

phone log details timed at 3:26am, were not disclosed as an exhibit at the time of the trial, and the first page of the log from the scene, has vital omissions about the sighting of the figure at the bedroom window which caused the police to request from the scene that the firearms team be deployed to the scene...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline Kaldin

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Re: Essex police accepted call was made from Whf...
« Reply #129 on: March 15, 2011, 09:41:PM »
Mike, are you saying that Malcolm Bonnet's log of the call from PC West was copied onto the back of this original document?


Offline mike tesko

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Re: Essex police accepted call was made from Whf...
« Reply #130 on: March 15, 2011, 09:42:PM »
... Unless, RB made an earlier call, before JB to the police - and if, MB did not make the notes up for the 3.26am log, until later (I do not think the photocopy of the 3.26am phone message that was copied on the reverse of the 4.02am log was genuinely written up, as claimed, I think its been modified to try and make it fit the prosecutions case) - in other words, it doesn't mean what the prosecution suggest it means at all, its a forgery...

We've been here before though haven't we?

In this alleged call from Nevill to JB, Nevill didn't tell JB that he had already called the police, as stated by JB. If Nevill had already called the police he would not withold that information during the call to JB.
The copy of one call log on the back of another was just that, a photocopy, given out at trial. The originals were not on the reverse sides of a single piece of paper.

What do you base your accusation that a document has been modified or forged, and when did this allegedly take place?

How do you know that for certain?
-------------------------------------

It's a forgery because one side of the document is an original, relating to a different log from the scene starting at 4:02am, whilst on the reverse side, is a photocopy of the phone message log timed at 3:26am - you can't have an original on one side and a copy on the other, both sides should be original contents...

Let's be clear about what you're saying here. You're saying that the document which contained these words was in court for everyone to see?

Quote
05.25               Firearms team are in conversation with a person from inside the farm
--------------

Are you attributing comments made by others, to me?

No. You said this:

Quote
It's a forgery because one side of the document is an original, relating to a different log from the scene starting at 4:02am ...


The log you're referring to contained the words I just quoted, right?
-------------------------

But the details on that log from the scene were not the original details that should have been recorded in that log, because there is no mention about what PC Myall / PS Bews and Jeremy all saw at the bedroom window, details of which were relayed by police radio from CA07...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline mike tesko

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Re: Essex police accepted call was made from Whf...
« Reply #131 on: March 15, 2011, 09:42:PM »
Mike, are you saying that Malcolm Bonnet's log of the call from PC West was copied onto the back of this original document?


----------------

no...
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when we first practice to deceive"...

Offline Kaldin

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Re: Essex police accepted call was made from Whf...
« Reply #132 on: March 15, 2011, 09:43:PM »


But the details on that log from the scene were not the original details that should have been recorded in that log, because there is no mention about what PC Myall / PS Bews and Jeremy all saw at the bedroom window, details of which were relayed by police radio from CA07...

But are you saying that document was in court? If so, then why did the defence not mention the bit about the firearms team being in conversation with someone from inside the farm?

Offline Kaldin

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Re: Essex police accepted call was made from Whf...
« Reply #133 on: March 15, 2011, 09:43:PM »
In my opinion, that log I just posted was written by Malcolm Bonnet who was in the information room.

Offline Kaldin

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Re: Essex police accepted call was made from Whf...
« Reply #134 on: March 15, 2011, 09:44:PM »
Mike, are you saying that Malcolm Bonnet's log of the call from PC West was copied onto the back of this original document?


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no...

Well that's the log which starts at 4.02, and that's what you referred to earlier.