Did Jeremy hate June ?

[Adam]

why - cant you use your own words for your own opinion? - just say when  its your opinion or when its an opinion from a book  just to make it clear . When it all boils down to it , opinion is just opinion anyway.

My thread makes it clear. Page 220, chapter 31.

[Adam]

Thank you for putting that up, Jansus. Perhaps now Adam will answer the question WHICH of the two statements given by BW was a lie.

Neither is a lie. She was asked percific direct questions in the pre court trial.

Since the conviction she has more freedom to express herself.

[Jane]

I'd find Jeremy a little more convincing were he to admit to grudges instead of trying to play the Happy Families card for 28 years.  As members have stated all families go through rough patches without resorting to murder. I'm still intrigued as to why Jeremy's relationship with June deteriorated from 1978 as alluded to in Wilkes' book but never developed,and I can only assume it was due to Jeremy's attempt  to make up for lost time by overindulging  yet lacking the necessary wherewithal to do so on a regular basis.

Steve, it's always difficult to make a full assessments when one only has sound bites to go by although in contrast to his present surroundings life at WHF may seem like an idyll in retrospect. Like you, I'm intrigued to know more of Jeremy's relationship with June. I can recall feeling that even if I turned myself inside out I'd never get maternal approval. I HOPE that isn't how Jeremy felt. It's a horrid thing for a child to grow up with. In case you're wondering, my own mother lived until she was 93!!!!!!!

[Steve_uk]

don't quite understand ? I think he said they had had a difficult relationship at times - probably when he was a teenager /early 20s- but that the couple of years before the murder their relationship had been ok - he was not exactly gushy about it as far as I can see. I thought that his reminiscing was more about when he was very young - probably before he was at boarding school or in the holidays? Is that wrong?

No the quote from Wilkes' book is a deteriorating relationship from 1978 which would tally with Jeremy  requiring more freedom to live his own life,and one can imagine June making similar remarks to her son  as she did with Sheila.  Jeremy needed a longer leash just at the time Nevill thought it was payback time for his son receiving the best education money could buy. Jeremy won that particular battle with his foreign trips concesssions but he was only buying time until the inevitable eventually came when Jeremy was expected to put in long hours at the Farm just as Nevill himself had done in his turn.

[Jan]

My thread makes it clear. Page 220, chapter 31.

so everything you have written - on this thread is all on that page of the book?

Gosh you are so confusing

[Jane]

Neither is a lie. She was asked percific direct questions in the pre court trial.

Since the conviction she has more freedom to express herself.

Odd then that she wasn't asked those specific questions which would have show Jeremy in a bad light. NOTHING about her WS suggests anything untoward. She could have been speaking about a totally different person so one of her versions HAS to be wrong. A LIE.

[Steve_uk]

Steve, it's always difficult to make a full assessments when one only has sound bites to go by although in contrast to his present surroundings life at WHF may seem like an idyll in retrospect. Like you, I'm intrigued to know more of Jeremy's relationship with June. I can recall feeling that even if I turned myself inside out I'd never get maternal approval. I HOPE that isn't how Jeremy felt. It's a horrid thing for a child to grow up with. In case you're wondering, my own mother lived until she was 93!!!!!!!

I didn't see June as a control freak really;just guided by moral beliefs which may admittedly have had the same effect.  June must have realized she'd made mistakes,hence the letter she wrote to be opened after her death,but I think she always wanted the best for her children.

[nugnug]

so everything you have written - on this thread is all on that page of the book?

Gosh you are so confusing

he must of wrote it in tiny little letters musnt he.

[Jane]

I didn't see June as a control freak really;just guided by moral beliefs which may admittedly have had the same effect.  June must have realized she'd made mistakes,hence the letter she wrote to be opened after her death,but I think she always wanted the best for her children.

You are judging her, in an objective way, through adult eyes, something Jeremy wouldn't, probably STILL isn't, capable of doing. I would agree with you that she only ever wanted what was best for her children, but like many parents isn't capable of seeing that what THEY regard as being the best, actually is only the best for them, NOT their children.

[Steve_uk]

You are judging her, in an objective way, through adult eyes, something Jeremy wouldn't, probably STILL isn't, capable of doing. I would agree with you that she only ever wanted what was best for her children, but like many parents isn't capable of seeing that what THEY regard as being the best, actually is only the best for them, NOT their children.

What had June done wrong apart from becoming ill herself:very little really apart from maintaining the finances and putting Nevill first. This whole sorry tale is an unbelievable assemblage of coincidences from two adoptees,family illnesses,Jeremy's knack for figures,his alienation generated by being sent away to boarding school,his knowledge of guns,Julie's equivocation,the lightning strike..

[Jan]

No the quote from Wilkes' book is a deteriorating relationship from 1978 which would tally with Jeremy  requiring more freedom to live his own life,and one can imagine June making similar remarks to her son  as she did with Sheila.  Jeremy needed a longer leash just at the time Nevill thought it was payback time for his son receiving the best education money could buy. Jeremy won that particular battle with his foreign trips concesssions but he was only buying time until the inevitable eventually came when Jeremy was expected to put in long hours at the Farm just as Nevill himself had done in his turn.

And according to the valuer who visited the farm on a regular basis Nevill was fairly happy about how Jeremy was progressing on the farm. So perhaps things had settled down.

[Jane]

What had June done wrong apart from becoming ill herself:very little really apart from maintaining the finances and putting Nevill first. This whole sorry tale is an unbelievable assemblage of coincidences from two adoptees,family illnesses,Jeremy's knack for figures,his alienation generated by being sent away to boarding school,his knowledge of guns,Julie's equivocation,the lightning strike..

Steve, it undoubtedly IS a sorry tale and that's just the very small part of it we know about. I've been wondering about those things we don't yet know and I've just realized that, until now, I haven't found the scapegoat. My mind first went to Jeremy but I think that's a mistake. I think it was more likely to have been Sheila. We don't here of any disruption in Jeremy's school life. He may not have liked Greshams, but he wasn't expelled and he didn't run away. I'm wondering if Sheila resented Jeremy's arrival in the family and made her feelings felt by making demands and getting her needs met, making herself the "bad" child. This would have made Jeremy the "good" child, however "good" children don't get parental attention in the same way as "bad" children because "bad" children know how to get parental attention. In later years, the parents will say of the "good" child, of whom they were SO proud, that they were no trouble and always happy to play contentedly on their own. They actually didn't have a choice. The "good" child, as an adult will talk about how its' parents took no notice of it and spent all their time with the "bad" sibling. I can't help wondering if this was how it was with Jeremy and Sheila.....................I will just add the rider that this situation doesn't automatically produce murderers.

[Caroline]

The title of this thread is VERY misleading - we don't know if he did or if he didn't hate June!

[Alias]

Did Jeremy really hate June? Do we know that for a fact? How many people have said that? If he did, did that make him a murderer.
Discussing this proves nothing one way or the other. Why are we discussing this? 

The picture below, which must have been taken not too long before the tragedy judging from Jeremy´s age, doesn´t show two people who don´t talk to each other. They show a mother and son leaning towards each other, smiling, son with arm amicably on the back of the chair mother is sitting on. They both look like they like having this photo taken. No hate. There is someone on June´s right hand (on photo) - June obviously feels closer to Jeremy, because she leans towards him.
I can´t see any hate in this photo.

[Jan]

Did Jeremy really hate June? Do we know that for a fact? How many people have said that? If he did, did that make him a murderer.
Discussing this proves nothing one way or the other. Why are we discussing this? 

The picture below, which must have been taken not too long before the tragedy judging from Jeremy´s age, doesn´t show two people who don´t talk to each other. They show a mother and son leaning towards each other, smiling, son with arm amicably on the back of the chair mother is sitting on. They both look like they like having this photo taken. No hate. There is someone on June´s right hand (on photo) - June obviously feels closer to Jeremy, because she leans towards him.
I can´t see any hate in this photo.

Never seen that photo before . I will have to post it every time Adam says they had not spoken for years ( sorry some author said it)