foster care.

[Jan]

It's my view that June definitely wanted a larger role in her grandsons' lives-or rather control as she realized she had been too lax with Sheila and Jeremy in their day. My guess is that she was lining them up for public school when they reached a similar age to Jeremy and who knows how else their lives would have been mapped out had they lived. As it was June felt no compunction in interfering with the weekend plans of Colin and Jan and seemed to come and go from Moreshead Mansions as she pleased,with both Colin and Sheila not having the courage to gainsay her. June was also proposing to gift Sheila a quarterly allowance,but she always seemed to desire payment in kind and didn't understand that the twins needed love and a set routine at this stage of their lives and not the heavy hand of a dominatrix whose child-rearing skills left much to be desired.

I think Neville would go along with that as well as he obviously was worried about Sheila . June was quite a strong and brave character in her younger years and perhaps she felt in control then. Her illness was very sad as well .

[Steve_uk]

I think Neville would go along with that as well as he obviously was worried about Sheila . June was quite a strong and brave character in her younger years and perhaps she felt in control then. Her illness was very sad as well .

I wonder if the ECT brought any memory loss,which made her cling on all the more to the constants she did recall. Nevill similarly lived in the past,which made them both all too unaware of the impending storm.

[Jan]

I have got to say that the book does so far give a picture of the family that even though you read statements on here , is a fuller rounder representation. When I read Colins book I did not feel that I could relate the statements in isolation to the lives of the people involved.

It may not provide an answer but I feel so far it does give some understanding which other books I have read do not.

I did not understand fully the basis of the relationship between Jeremy and Sue Ford and how June also tried to control that as well. It sounds more like the 50s than the 80s

[Steve_uk]

I have got to say that the book does so far give a picture of the family that even though you read statements on here , is a fuller rounder representation. When I read Colins book I did not feel that I could relate the statements in isolation to the lives of the people involved.

It may not provide an answer but I feel so far it does give some understanding which other books I have read do not.

I did not understand fully the basis of the relationship between Jeremy and Sue Ford and how June also tried to control that as well. It sounds more like the 50s than the 80s

This is one of the key questions and a possible catalyst for Jeremy's nascent hatred towards his mother,which really started the whole thing..

[Jane]

I wonder if the ECT brought any memory loss,which made her cling on all the more to the constants she did recall. Nevill similarly lived in the past,which made them both all too unaware of the impending storm.

Steve, the possibility occurs to me, the the most "successful" course of ECT does exactly what frontal lobotomy does: it numbs that part of the brain which has been causing problems.

[Steve_uk]

Steve, the possibility occurs to me, the the most "successful" course of ECT does exactly what frontal lobotomy does: it numbs that part of the brain which has been causing problems.

..and the patient retreats into their own comfortable world,not necessarily wanting to antagonize others but often unable to show empathy for the plight of others.

[Jan]

This is one of the key questions and a possible catalyst for Jeremy's nascent hatred towards his mother,which really started the whole thing..

possibly    like I have said before I look at it from both sides. But the stronger disparity appeared to be between Sheila and her mother .

Perhaps Jeremy was more adept at hiding it ? He too seems to have a split personality with similar accounts of him being popular and friendly and then being an odd ball.

so far I am surprised about how ill June had been and how the family tried to keep  everything private . Jeremy was right about that . They did seem to want to try and cope with everything themselves and considering both Junes and Nevilles background, their problems must have come as quite a shock - they do seem to be of the generation that just shut up and got on with things.

[Steve_uk]

possibly    like I have said before I look at it from both sides. But the stronger disparity appeared to be between Sheila and her mother .

Perhaps Jeremy was more adept at hiding it ? He too seems to have a split personality with similar accounts of him being popular and friendly and then being an odd ball.

so far I am surprised about how ill June had been and how the family tried to keep  everything private . Jeremy was right about that . They did seem to want to try and cope with everything themselves and considering both Junes and Nevilles background, their problems must have come as quite a shock - they do seem to be of the generation that just shut up and got on with things.

It must have seemed like a gift come true when all the people around him who had hitherto given him orders seemed to disintegrate in front of his very eyes,affording him the unique chance to step forward and take control.

[Jane]

I have got to say that the book does so far give a picture of the family that even though you read statements on here , is a fuller rounder representation. When I read Colins book I did not feel that I could relate the statements in isolation to the lives of the people involved.

It may not provide an answer but I feel so far it does give some understanding which other books I have read do not.

I did not understand fully the basis of the relationship between Jeremy and Sue Ford and how June also tried to control that as well. It sounds more like the 50s than the 80s

Believe me when I say I wish I didn't, but I FULLY understand the kind of control that was being employed on Jeremy. I understand, too, why he'd wish to get away from it.

[Jane]

..and the patient retreats into their own comfortable world,not necessarily wanting to antagonize others but often unable to show empathy for the plight of others.

Something of the person is definitely lost, Steve.

[Jane]

possibly    like I have said before I look at it from both sides. But the stronger disparity appeared to be between Sheila and her mother .

Perhaps Jeremy was more adept at hiding it ? He too seems to have a split personality with similar accounts of him being popular and friendly and then being an odd ball.

so far I am surprised about how ill June had been and how the family tried to keep  everything private . Jeremy was right about that . They did seem to want to try and cope with everything themselves and considering both Junes and Nevilles background, their problems must have come as quite a shock - they do seem to be of the generation that just shut up and got on with things.

"Parents do their best" How many times have we heard it? For the most part they do it for their children but some do "their best" for themselves. Those parents who over protect, control their children's thoughts and actions, employ emotional blackmail, use money to bring them to heel, do their children no favours. They may have succeeded in producing people like themselves, but they may well have left an adult who is ill equipped to cope on any level. Was it simply Sheila's illness which made her unable to cope or was it that she'd been over regulated? Jeremy appeared to enjoy the idea of being "Boss" but how capable would he have been to take over the reins from Nevill?

[Jan]

Of course no one was expecting Jeremy to take over at that early age . And Neville seemed to think with guidance over the years that he would take over. But  as they were cruel with Sheila about how she wanted to celebrate her wedding they were also trying to control Jeremys destiny as well.

[Steve_uk]

"Parents do their best" How many times have we heard it? For the most part they do it for their children but some do "their best" for themselves. Those parents who over protect, control their children's thoughts and actions, employ emotional blackmail, use money to bring them to heel, do their children no favours. They may have succeeded in producing people like themselves, but they may well have left an adult who is ill equipped to cope on any level. Was it simply Sheila's illness which made her unable to cope or was it that she'd been over regulated? Jeremy appeared to enjoy the idea of being "Boss" but how capable would he have been to take over the reins from Nevill?

He couldn't have done it and shouldn't have been expected to. But the caravan park was another matter. However that part of the business seemed to have been hijacked by the Boutflours,which may have caused Jeremy further resentment.

[Jane]

He couldn't have done it and shouldn't have been expected to. But the caravan park was another matter. However that part of the business seemed to have been hijacked by the Boutflours,which may have caused Jeremy further resentment.

Or maybe he just made the sort of noises which, although they suggested that there may have been a business man in there, when the waffle was stripped away, amounted to very little. Was this backed up by him being missing when work was required of him?

[Jan]

It seems that modernisation of the caravan was a struggle and June objected to quite a lot of things that were suggested.