DCS Ainsley visited Robert Boutflour on 6th September with info about Mugford

[mike tesko]

DCS Ainsley visited Robert Boutflour on 6th September with info about Mugford

According to details contained in Robert Boutflours statement that he made to COLP in 1991, DCS "Mick" Ainsley, visited Robert Boutflour and told him that Julie Mugford was currently helping police with their inquiries, and that she was backing up everything that the relatives had been saying about Jeremy's involvement in the shootings...

Ainsley told Boutflour, on that occasion that a police officer would be coming to take a witness statement from him on the following day (7th September 19865) which caused Boutflour to start typing up notes with a view to handing these over to the police on that subsequent occasion...

[mike tesko]

The plot thickens...

[mike tesko]

It would appear that the relatives were being updated about what Mugford was saying to the police, to encourage them to find evidence and present statements to the police, to help them prosecute Jeremy for the murders...

What was DCS "Mick" Ainsley doing confiding in Robert Boutflour, about what Mugford was saying to the police, on and by and after 6th September 1985?

[andrea]

According to Colin Caffell, Ainsley was put in charge on the 8th; Kinneally having been in charge from the 5th. Perhaps he was misinformed.

hi sarann  what do you think of the book so far?

[andrea]

the drawings are quite sinister, especially the sun vomiting or bleeding over whf.

and the drawing of june naked?

what effect do you think june had on the twins regarding religion?

[Dr Pal]

It can't any of these and why?
Jeremy said he had a call from his father saying it was his Sister...
This throws the others out the scene as why would the father lie??
So it can only be Bamber or sister can't it or if the father didn't call, why did Bamber make this call up??

[mike tesko]

According to Colin Caffell, Ainsley was put in charge on the 8th; Kinneally having been in charge from the 5th. Perhaps he was misinformed.

------------------------------------

According to Robert Boutflours statement that he made to COLP in 1991, DCS "Mick" Ainsley came to see Boutflour on 6th September 1985, and told him that Mugford was helping police with their inquiries and that she was backing up what the relatives had been saying all along...

[mb1]

It can't any of these and why?
Jeremy said he had a call from his father saying it was his Sister...
This throws the others out the scene as why would the father lie??
So it can only be Bamber or sister can't it or if the father didn't call, why did Bamber make this call up??

Hi Dr Pal,
People spend months on this site, but you've got it in one.

The phone call is the crux of the matter. It sets up the 'live situation'. It sets up violence and mayhem before the police arrive. It sets up JB v SC, either/or.

The only evidence I can find against SC is the phone call. Unless we've now decided that all sufferers of paranoid schizophrenia are murderers-in-waiting.

[mb1]

Or, as discussed elsewhere - Nevill may have been forced to make the call?

Over the last 25 years JB's defence teams have never pursued the 3rd Party argument within a court.

For whatever reason, the defence have chosen the JB v SC line.
It effectively means JB has to fight on two flanks - prove his innocence by proving her guilt.

The phone 'alibi' has become the albatross.

[mb1]

I see what you mean, but Sheila could have made him - so no third party.
Isn't that what DCI Jones thought may have happened?

Yes, SC could have forced Nevill to make the phone call.

So then we have to establish the case against SC.
I had previously given importance to the fact that she had smoked cannabis within a week of the murders. However, she had done this many times before without entering murderous rages, and there is no evidence that she was in a downward spiral in the days leading up to the crimes. She may not have been 'normal' in societal terms, but she was her version of 'normal'.

The more I look, the more evidence piles up in the 'SC innocent' table. The evidence against her remains the (uncorroborated) phone call and the fact she suffered from PS. It's not enough.

If JB's team refuses to explore the 3rd party angle, it doesn't leave much room to manoeuvre around the case.

[Jackiepreece]

I have read and I think mike can probably back this up that on the journey to whf Sheila told Colin she wanted to get back with him but he told her he was happy with his new girlfriend.  I have no information if she asked this before but I have read in depth about sheilas condition but this would be very bad in her condition.  Because of her illness she could have reacted very badly to that news.  The night of the murders I think June put her on the phone to her aunt and she hardly said anything and didn't say goodbye to her aunt which was unusual.

Also going back to an earlier post when Jeremy told the police his father had rung him he had no idea that bt could not check to see if that call actually happened.  I don't think the general public ever have the full information that can be used against us re bt.

For someone like JB who had apparently been planning these murders for ages as told by jm this whole suicide theory could have fallen apart on that point.  I just don't believe he would have carried out those 5 murders if he thought he could have been caught out on one phone call.

[jon]

I have read and I think mike can probably back this up that on the journey to whf Sheila told Colin she wanted to get back with him but he told her he was happy with his new girlfriend.  I have no information if she asked this before but I have read in depth about sheilas condition but this would be very bad in her condition.  Because of her illness she could have reacted very badly to that news.  The night of the murders I think June put her on the phone to her aunt and she hardly said anything and didn't say goodbye to her aunt which was unusual.

Also going back to an earlier post when Jeremy told the police his father had rung him he had no idea that bt could not check to see if that call actually happened.  I don't think the general public ever have the full information that can be used against us re bt.

For someone like JB who had apparently been planning these murders for ages as told by jm this whole suicide theory could have fallen apart on that point.  I just don't believe he would have carried out those 5 murders if he thought he could have been caught out on one phone call.

Exactly if BT could have told EP whether the call was made or not JB alibi would have been compromised in the first hour's of the case , how would he know BT couldnt do this ?

[Dr Pal]

JB would have done his research I'm sure and it was common knowledge at that time there was no itemised billing as you could only meter calls. Plus he delayed matters by not calling 999, also wasn't it proved that he  called Mugford before the alleged father call, as this really puts him in the running as why lie on this if nothing to hide?? Pretty convenient too him leaving a loaded shot gun about don't you think the night before? From his first chance of speaking to the Police aswell, he called her his MAD sister.

[Dr Pal]

I see what you mean, but Sheila could have made him - so no third party.
Isn't that what DCI Jones thought may have happened?

Yes, SC could have forced Nevill to make the phone call.

So then we have to establish the case against SC.
I had previously given importance to the fact that she had smoked cannabis within a week of the murders. However, she had done this many times before without entering murderous rages, and there is no evidence that she was in a downward spiral in the days leading up to the crimes. She may not have been 'normal' in societal terms, but she was her version of 'normal'.

The more I look, the more evidence piles up in the 'SC innocent' table. The evidence against her remains the (uncorroborated) phone call and the fact she suffered from PS. It's not enough.

If JB's team refuses to explore the 3rd party angle, it doesn't leave much room to manoeuvre around the case.

Very sensible posts MB where i agree with you 100%

If you have a Facebook account, would love some of your views on here.

http://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/pages/Jeremy-Bamber-Child-Killer-is-Guilty-as-Charged/187953254568881

[jon]

JB would have done his research I'm sure and it was common knowledge at that time there was no itemised billing as you could only meter calls. Plus he delayed matters by not calling 999, also wasn't it proved that he  called Mugford before the alleged father call, as this really puts him in the running as why lie on this if nothing to hide?? Pretty convenient too him leaving a loaded shot gun about don't you think the night before? From his first chance of speaking to the Police aswell, he called her his MAD sister.

Who told EP he left it out ? He could have easily said he left in the cupboard