Beyond reasonable doubt.

[Jan]

Perhaps they were all alive when Dr Craig arrived. The police shot them all at exactly 8.00am in front of Dr Craig.

most sensible post I have seen you do for a long time -at least it is different,

[grahameb]

Perhaps they were all alive when Dr Craig arrived. The police shot them all at exactly 8.00am in front of Dr Craig.

As I said, it doesn't matter what we say or what are our scenarios. It is the facts alone that must decide. If it is recorded that they all died at 8am, then Bamber is being held illegally against his will. In fact I will go further and say that this evidence alone negates all other evidence from the prosecution. This is a legal matter and should be presented to the courts of appeal directly and should completely bypass the CCRC and their fat arses.

[grahameb]

As I said, it doesn't matter what we say or what are our scenarios. It is the facts alone that must decide. If it is recorded that they all died at 8am, then Bamber is being held illegally against his will. In fact I will go further and say that this evidence alone negates all other evidence from the prosecution. This is a legal matter and should be presented to the courts of appeal directly and should completely bypass the CCRC and their fat arses.

In fact I even dare to go further and say that the CCRC is an illegal body as it was not appointed at the consent of the people. What is wrong with the British public these days. Are we prepared for this government and their law lords to continually run rough shod over us? Each of us would want justice for ourselves wouldn't we? So what if it were you who were imprisoned for a crime you did not commit? Then be prepared to not only doubt Bambers guilt. But every judgment made by our so called courts of law which depend not on real concrete evidence collected, but rather upon the skills of the counsels to win or lose your case for you.
The CCRC is a white elephant that nobody needs. The sooner this unjust body is disbanded the better it will be for England.

[Reader]

Recording that someone is dead at 8am doesn't imply they died at 8am.

[grahameb]

Recording that someone is dead at 8am doesn't imply they died at 8am.

No it states quite clearly that they did and because it states that they did and was accepted by the court then that time is by default the only time that can be legally accepted. There is no other time given to challenged that time.

[Reader]

What are you referring to as "it" and what were the words used?

[susan]

Morning Reader

A recorded time of death can be approximate but is pretty near the mark.

[bigdaveglasgow75]

hi susan.i suppose in most cases but not allways.what time did raid team enter the house.

[susan]

Morning Bigdave  Not sure think the raid team entered about 7.30 but others on the forum this morning have better knowledge than me.  It is obvious Sheila died after the rest of the family a calculated guess was 8 a.m. so they put that as the time of death for all the victims (shoddy work again) and Jeremy was with the police outside at that time but hey ho nobody seems to take any notice of these matters only ones that incriminate Jeremy Bamber.

[grahameb]

What are you referring to as "it" and what were the words used?

Here is the statement of Dr. Craig so you can examine it for yourself and the words used. He certified Ralph's death at 8.40am. June's death at 8.44am. Sheila's death at 8.44am and the boys' deaths at 8.50am.
Now of course I can see the obvious. He certified the deaths at the time he examined them. I can see that. But legally as a matter of technicality that may free Bamber they are the only record of deaths that we have. Since it is the only record we have they must be taken as being the official times of deaths.

Now as far as we know the police were the first people there at around 7am say. They could only say that the victims were dead when they found them. They could not tell at what time they died. So they had to get the good dpctor in so that the times could be recorded legally.

Unfortunately their deaths were all recorded after 8am. As no one was in the house when the raid team broke in no one can say when they actually died. So if Bamber was with the police at the time of the raid teams' break in and still with them when the doctor recorded the deaths as being after 8am Then technically he is innocent no matter what he or anyone else said. There is your technicallity that must free Bamber.
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1187.0.html

[marchend]

crikey. how things degenerate.

Under these circumstances we can't afford to be proud, so will you tell us, please

April, the question I pose is how? cant people exercise their brains in a more productive manner than argueing over an 8 am time of death certificate. im shaking my head here at that.
so,any suggestions?

[grahameb]

crikey. how things degenerate.

Under these circumstances we can't afford to be proud, so will you tell us, please

April, the question I pose is how? cant people exercise their brains in a more productive manner than argueing over an 8 am time of death certificate. im shaking my head here at that.
so,any suggestions?

So what time do you estimate the times of deaths?

[marchend]

So what time do you estimate the times of deaths?

grahame,i know your not an idiot,so you to must agree that the time the doc states time of death,is not the actual time of death.
am I not correct in my assumption that a doctor must legaly declare someone dead? therefore the doctor cant speculate as to who died when,he just looked at them, decided they were in fact deceased when he viewed them, and looked at his watch to declare a time he was satisfied they were dead. that seems quite logical to me. I will agree,the time of death as per dr craig is obviously not the time that death actually occurred.
sorry back to the question. im fairly happy all were dead prior to police arriving on scene.
however, time of deaths cannot be proven now so is a spurious debate imo.
its been done to death,with all sorts of red herrings,misinformation and lies.
Time of death. the last thing i'll say about it. 

[grahameb]

grahame,i know your not an idiot,so you to must agree that the time the doc states time of death,is not the actual time of death.
am I not correct in my assumption that a doctor must legaly declare someone dead? therefore the doctor cant speculate as to who died when,he just looked at them, decided they were in fact deceased when he viewed them, and looked at his watch to declare a time he was satisfied they were dead. that seems quite logical to me. I will agree,the time of death as per dr craig is obviously not the time that death actually occurred.
sorry back to the question. im fairly happy all were dead prior to police arriving on scene.
however, time of deaths cannot be proven now so is a spurious debate imo.
its been done to death,with all sorts of red herrings,misinformation and lies.
Time of death. the last thing i'll say about it.

Well work it out. What other witness or witnesses who can honestly prove what time the deaths took place? If you accept Jeremy's statement that his father phoned at 3.30 or whatever, then you must accept that they weren't at that time. If you don't accept his testimony, then again you cannot tell what time they died. It would be speculation.
So all we have to go on are the police testimonies and Dr. Craig's testimony. Logical conclusion. Bamber is innocent as he was with the police at both times.

[Jane]

Well work it out. What other witness or witnesses who can honestly prove what time the deaths took place? If you accept Jeremy's statement that his father phoned at 3.30 or whatever, then you must accept that they weren't at that time. If you don't accept his testimony, then again you cannot tell what time they died. It would be speculation.
So all we have to go on are the police testimonies and Dr. Craig's testimony. Logical conclusion. Bamber is innocent as he was with the police at both times.

Grahame, maybe marchend is suggesting that whatever the time of death, we can't do ANYTHING about it this far down the line, so perhaps we should start exploring other avenues. If PROOF can never be found, even if it exists, the next best thing HAS to be a technicality.