Raid team were intent on shooting Sheila on sight upon entering whf...

[mike tesko]

They were prepared to shoot to kill when going into the house, and shot and killed her once entry was gained...

[Jane]

That being the case, and as they were a team, isn't it odd that they left just one member to fire at a person who was armed and who had already killed, and that none of them stopped to check that the oddly/mistakenly(?) placed bullet HAD actually caused life to be extinct. I thought that trained marksmen aimed for the heart area when faced with armed opposition.

[lookout]

They were prepared to shoot to kill when going into the house, and shot and killed her once entry was gained...

So Mike,,do you think that Sheila was then carried upstairs,hence the way blood has run if her head had lolled back,as we know that liquid finds its own level,and in this case movement would indicate this ?

[mike tesko]

That being the case, and as they were a team, isn't it odd that they left just one member to fire at a person who was armed and who had already killed, and that none of them stopped to check that the oddly/mistakenly(?) placed bullet HAD actually caused life to be extinct. I thought that trained marksmen aimed for the heart area when faced with armed opposition.

Hi April,bullet

It was not known at the time Sheila was shot in the first instance, the direction or path the original bullet (PV/20) had taken, this was because of the circumstances in which Sheila had been shot, by Woodcock, as he was coming around the edge of the internal kitchen door. his weapon had its barrel facing inward towards the outer external kitchen wall, and was grabbed at by Sheila - thus began a struggle between Sheila, and PS Woodcock, with the trigger becoming activated by Woodcock in the heat of the moment. The shot incapacitated Sheila immediately, and it was thought that the shot in question had killed her outright at that stage...

I can provide more information and detail if required...

[nugnug]

this thoery would explian the cover up if it was true.

[mike tesko]

this thoery would explian the cover up if it was true.

Hi nugnug,

I can assure you and everybody else, that Sheila was shot when the raid team entered the kitchen through the blocked off internal kitchen door. I can reveal that as these events unfolded, and obviously Sheila had been shot at by that stage, there was some indecision by those present at the scene, as to whether or not Sheila had deliberately pulled the barrel of woodcocks weapon into her throat, to make him shoot her, or whether or not Woodcock, had deliberately, or accidentally pulled the trigger of the aforementioned weapon? These are the true circumstances which relate to the passing of the police radio messages, passed from the scene, between 7.37 and 7.45am - (a) "the body of one dead male, and the body of one dead female, found upon entry", (b) "One dead male, one dead female", (c)"Can somebody contact the police surgeon, and the coroners officer, regarding two bodies", and (d) "can you come into the office, because police at whf are dealing with two dead bodies"...

Had Sheila deliberately pulled the muzzle of PS Woodcocks weapon into her own throat, did she commit suicide, by these means?

Or...

Was she shot deliberately, or accidentally, in the neck, by PS Woodcock?

[mike tesko]

Hi nugnug,

I can assure you and everybody else, that Sheila was shot when the raid team entered the kitchen through the blocked off internal kitchen door. I can reveal that as these events unfolded, and obviously Sheila had been shot at by that stage, there was some indecision by those present at the scene, as to whether or not Sheila had deliberately pulled the barrel of woodcocks weapon into her throat, to make him shoot her, or whether or not Woodcock, had deliberately, or accidentally pulled the trigger of the aforementioned weapon? These are the true circumstances which relate to the passing of the police radio messages, passed from the scene, between 7.37 and 7.45am - (a) "the body of one dead male, and the body of one dead female, found upon entry", (b) "One dead male, one dead female", (c)"Can somebody contact the police surgeon, and the coroners officer, regarding two bodies", and (d) "can you come into the office, because police at whf are dealing with two dead bodies"...

Had Sheila deliberately pulled the muzzle of PS Woodcocks weapon into her own throat, did she commit suicide by these means?

Or...

Was she shot deliberately, or accidentally, in the neck, by PS Woodcock?

You make your own mind up, about that...

[Roch]

Hi nugnug,

I can assure you and everybody else, that Sheila was shot when the raid team entered the kitchen through the blocked off internal kitchen door. I can reveal that as these events unfolded, and obviously Sheila had been shot at by that stage, there was some indecision by those present at the scene, as to whether or not Sheila had deliberately pulled the barrel of woodcocks weapon into her throat, to make him shoot her, or whether or not Woodcock, had deliberately, or accidentally pulled the trigger of the aforementioned weapon? These are the true circumstances which relate to the passing of the police radio messages, passed from the scene, between 7.37 and 7.45am - (a) "the body of one dead male, and the body of one dead female, found upon entry", (b) "One dead male, one dead female", (c)"Can somebody contact the police surgeon, and the coroners officer, regarding two bodies", and (d) "can you come into the office, because police at whf are dealing with two dead bodies"...

Had Sheila deliberately pulled the muzzle of PS Woodcocks weapon into her own throat, did she commit suicide, by these means?

Or...

Was she shot deliberately, or accidentally, in the neck, by PS Woodcock?

Hi Mike,

It's tempting to be open to the possibility of police having discharged weapon/s.  I do not understand why the ballistics would need to be manipulated if Sheila Caffell shot her self twice.  Shooting her self twice does raise a lot of questions and doubts.  I am of the opinion that Jeremy Bamber was not involved.

If Sheila shooting her self twice is a questionable likelihood and Jeremy Bamber didn't shoot Sheila whatsoever, it appears that you have to consider the possibility for some kind of police involvement in the discharge of weapon/s.

Can you please provide an opinion as to why the defence seem so dead set against pursuing this line?  And can also discuss where an accidental police discharge for the second shot leaves the argument for cadaveric spasm in one of Sheila's hands? 

[HMEssex]

Hi Mike,

It's tempting to be open to the possibility of police having discharged weapon/s.  I do not understand why the ballistics would need to be manipulated if Sheila Caffell shot her self twice.  Shooting her self twice does raise a lot of questions and doubts.  I am of the opinion that Jeremy Bamber was not involved.

If Sheila shooting her self twice is a questionable likelihood and Jeremy Bamber didn't shoot Sheila whatsoever, it appears that you have to consider the possibility for some kind of police involvement in the discharge of weapon/s.

Can you please provide an opinion as to why the defence seem so dead set against pursuing this line?  And can also discuss where an accidental police discharge for the second shot leaves the argument for cadaveric spasm in one of Sheila's hands?

Well, that is interesting and a new perspective.  No one's thought of that, as far as I know.

[susan]

Hi Roch

have been reading an article on line where it states that women who commit suicide by the use of the rifle have been known to discharge two shots under the chin after the first shot the person is able to discharge a second one.  

[Caroline]

Hi Mike,

It's tempting to be open to the possibility of police having discharged weapon/s.  I do not understand why the ballistics would need to be manipulated if Sheila Caffell shot her self twice.  Shooting her self twice does raise a lot of questions and doubts.  I am of the opinion that Jeremy Bamber was not involved.

If Sheila shooting her self twice is a questionable likelihood and Jeremy Bamber didn't shoot Sheila whatsoever, it appears that you have to consider the possibility for some kind of police involvement in the discharge of weapon/s.

Can you please provide an opinion as to why the defence seem so dead set against pursuing this line?  And can also discuss where an accidental police discharge for the second shot leaves the argument for cadaveric spasm in one of Sheila's hands? 

I would imagine the shock from the first shot might well cause a 'jolt' which could have led to the trigger being pulled a second time. Something else, I think it's quite unusual for someone to wear their watch in bed? Sheila is still wearing hers.

[Alias]

I would imagine the shock from the first shot might well cause a 'jolt' which could have led to the trigger being pulled a second time. Something else, I think it's quite unusual for someone to wear their watch in bed? Sheila is still wearing hers.

We had a discussion about this way back, and the conclusion was that most people take off their watches when they go to bed, a few do not. When I wore a wrist watch, I tended to keep it on when I went to bed.
It doesn´t prove much, unless we could ask people who knew Sheila well what her general habit was concerning this.

[susan]

Hello Alias yes we did have a discussion about whether mature men wore their watches going to bed we were talking about Raph.  I did a survey in the supermarket and was asked to leave ss it was assumed I was looking for business  but it seems mature men remove their watches young men don't.  I remember Andrea saying she always went to bed in her watch did not do my research on females will leave that to you 

[Caroline]

We had a discussion about this way back, and the conclusion was that most people take off their watches when they go to bed, a few do not. When I wore a wrist watch, I tended to keep it on when I went to bed.
It doesn´t prove much, unless we could ask people who knew Sheila well what her general habit was concerning this.

No, it doesn't prove anything but it's an interesting observation to put with the others - like - it looks as though her bed wasn't slept in. 

[Alias]

Hello Alias yes we did have a discussion about whether mature men wore their watches going to bed we were talking about Raph.  I did a survey in the supermarket and was asked to leave ss it was assumed I was looking for business  but it seems mature men remove their watches young men don't.  I remember Andrea saying she always went to bed in her watch did not do my research on females will leave that to you 

HEY, that´s not fair!!!