A Killer Will Always Leave Something.

[Neil]

The problem at WHF was the initial poor investigation prior to Jeremy becoming a suspect, the list above shows a whole multitude of murders where the crime scene did not produce evidence in the manner you suggest Patti.

A daft claim dear. 

You make a fair point here Snow-Bits, regarding the botched investigation.

[lookout]

Jeremy left a lot behind.

Quite-----------------He used to live there ! And also worked there.

[Alias]

Claim dear? Me not saying that.  I am merely saying that the use of a substance like Luminol could have been used and that there is a possibility that it can still be used.  Blood soaks through onto the floor boards and luminol would be able to track down places were blood stained in WHF. Its not fantasy my dear Hartley its possible...that the floor boards are still in place.....I doubt there are carpets. But anything that was there can still be analysed.  Even the tyre tracks lol 

I am not sure any blood residue would show up so many years after (but possibly, would have to research a bit)? Also Luminol is not "fool proof", it reacts to other materials than blood (eg, copper, fecal matter, urine, bleach and some more), so it can give a false positive.

[No-Bits]

I am not sure any blood residue would show up so many years after (but possibly, would have to research a bit)? Also Luminol is not "fool proof", it reacts to other materials than blood (eg, copper, fecal matter, urine, bleach and some more), so it can give a false positive.

I didn't quite understand this, there is no need to check WHF, we can can all see the blood bath in the photographs, so what use would this be? Or is it being suggested that it could have been used in the house at Goldhanger? 

[Alias]

I didn't quite understand this, there is no need to check WHF, we can can all see the blood bath in the photographs, so what use would this be? Or is it being suggested that it could have been used in the house at Goldhanger? 

Perhaps there would be some relevance in Luminol testing the plumbing at both WHF and Jeremy´s cottage - if it hasn´t been changed entirely, it´s been a lot of years. Otherwise I cannot see any reason to do it.
Patti?

[Alias]

Hi Nugs

Taps, sinks, windows, car almost everywhere.....Why was this not done? It was about. Me thinks. 

Isn´t it mostly used in crimescenes that have been wiped/washed clean? The Luminol exposes blood no matter how much you scrub and clean; but why use it at a crime scene like the one at WHF - the blood was there to be seen?
Are you thinking about floorboards from under the removed and burnt carpets? Do you think there would have been enough blood to soak through the carpets? Perhaps where Nevill and Sheila were found. A bloody footprint or two would come in handy! 
Strange BTW how there are no reports of footprints from the farmhouse - there must have been some, but then the fourty-something officers trampled through the crimescene of course....
Just thinking aloud!

[mike tesko]

I think it might be a useful exercise to treat the original fingerprint form taken from Sheila's hands, during autopsy, to (a) a fresh hand swab test to check for presence of gun power residue, and lead deposit, (2) use of luminol to check for the presence of blood on the fingerprint impressions of both hands, with a view to resolving the question of whether or not she handled bullets in order to reload the guns ammunition magazine, and also to confirm that there was, or wasn't human blood present upon her fingers, which mixed with the ink used in the fingerprinting process. It may even be scientifically possible to find the DNA of the other victims in the ink impressions of Sheila's fingerprints...

[mike tesko]

I think it might be a useful exercise to treat the original fingerprint form taken from Sheila's hands, during autopsy, to (a) a fresh hand swab test to check for presence of gun power residue, and lead deposit, (2) use of luminol to check for the presence of blood on the fingerprint impressions of both hands, with a view to resolving the question of whether or not she handled bullets in order to reload the guns ammunition magazine, and also to confirm that there was, or wasn't human blood present upon her fingers, which mixed with the ink used in the fingerprinting process. It may even be scientifically possible to find the DNA of the other victims in the ink impressions of Sheila's fingerprints...

Advances in science, never cease to amaze me...

[Alias]

I think it might be a useful exercise to treat the original fingerprint form taken from Sheila's hands, during autopsy, to (a) a fresh hand swab test to check for presence of gun power residue, and lead deposit, (2) use of luminol to check for the presence of blood on the fingerprint impressions of both hands, with a view to resolving the question of whether or not she handled bullets in order to reload the guns ammunition magazine, and also to confirm that there was, or wasn't human blood present upon her fingers, which mixed with the ink used in the fingerprinting process. It may even be scientifically possible to find the DNA of the other victims in the ink impressions of Sheila's fingerprints...

There is a thought!
I am not sure that Luminol would be helpful though - would depend on what the ink is made of, a component that Luminol reacts to could be present.

[mike tesko]

There is a thought!
I am not sure that Luminol would be helpful though - would depend on what the ink is made of, a component that Luminol reacts to could be present.

I accept that, Alias, however, any reaction to the ink would obviously be a measurable commodity, that could be tested and compared to an uncontaminated fingerprint impression form, and the difference in detected levels of whatever, be compared with a view to establishing a presence of blood in one, or the other, or neither...

[mike tesko]

I accept that, Alias, however, any reaction to the ink would obviously be a measurable commodity, that could be tested and compared to an uncontaminated fingerprint impression form, and the difference in detected levels of whatever, be compared with a view to establishing a presence of blood in one, or the other, or neither...

It would be very easy, I should think, to carry out these tests, simply by using the original fingerprint forms taken during autopsy, of the three adult victims in this case, namely, Sheila, Ralph and June...

[Roch]

The problem at WHF was the initial poor investigation prior to Jeremy becoming a suspect

The victor will always be the judge, the vanquished the accused

DCI Thomas Jones may well have become the vanquished. 

Personally, I don't care too much for the honesty and integrity of the accusers left 'victorious' in his wake.

[No-Bits]

The victor will always be the judge, the vanquished the accused

DCI Thomas Jones may well have become the vanquished. 

Personally, I don't care too much for the honesty and integrity of the accusers left 'victorious' in his wake.

I have no idea what that means.  Sounds great though.  :D

[Roch]

I have no idea what that means.  Sounds great though.  :D

The quote in its' original context is not particularly helpful for JB's plight.  It was written by Herman Goring during the Nuremburg Trials.  Nevertheless, it's pretty much true.  Whichever side wins the day, assumes the right to pass judgement over the losing side.  That judgemet becomes the 'official' version. Which is what you portrayed when citing the alleged 'poor investigation' before Jeremy Bamber became a suspect.

It's quite striking that the latter, secondary investigation is also apparently full of genuine errors and mistakes.

[No-Bits]

The quote in its' original context is not particularly helpful for JB's plight.  It was written by Herman Goring during the Nuremburg Trials.  Nevertheless, it's pretty much true.  Whichever side wins the day, assumes the right to pass judgement over the losing side.  That judgemet becomes the 'official' version. Which is what you portrayed when citing the alleged 'poor investigation' before Jeremy Bamber becamse a suspect.

It's quite striking that the latter, secondary investigation is also apparently full of genuine errors and mistakes.

I think, and seem to have many people in agreement from either camp, that the police investigation was extremely poor. Just an opinion.

I don't really go in for all of these silly quotes, not my bag I'm afraid.