An alibi from Neville is better than no alibi at all :

[susan]

Alias am I correct in saying Julie just told him to go back bed as that is what she intended to do.

[lebaleb]

That's right Lookout. Jeremy is supposed to have cycled from Goldhanger on a bicycle with no lights [possibly wearing a wet-suit] without being seen. Silently entered WHF hoping that nobody was awake or that Crispy or the other dog wouldn't bark [Dogs having vastly superior hearing to humans]. Murdered Neville, [and then burned his back] June and the boys and then persuaded Sheila to sit still while he shot her once then placed the bible so she dripped blood on it. Closed it and opened it again at the same page. Shot her again before removing the silencer and taking it down to the gun cupboard to put it in a box. Then cycled back without being seen. Called the police and told them of a phone call hoping that the phone company couldn't disprove it. Called his girlfriend to keep her updated [didn't think to ask her to provide an alibi though]. Told police he could get into WHF through window. Given keys but doesn't bother to go and remove evidence. Dumps girlfriend who knows he's guilty. All this despite the fact he was already wealthy, was about to inherit from Grandmother and would have inherited all of the estate [apart from 10000 that would go to Sheila] provided he kept farming.
If he's guilty he must be a total moron to have behaved that way.

[Alias]

Alias am I correct in saying Julie just told him to go back bed as that is what she intended to do.

She did.

[lookout]

 The slowest murderer I've ever heard about,lebaleb. Most are keen to get it over and done with without extra fuss and palava like getting ready for the part ( wet-suit ),making sure the tyres are pumped up because of using a bicycle. He'd have to have left the basket on it for his change of clothing after the bloodbath.
Sorry about this next quip,but two barking dogs would have wakened the dead,let alone surrounding neighbours in their cottages. So they'd have been silenced first.
He sure did waste an awful lot of time considering all the" arranging" he made after the massacre. It's a miracle nobody came knocking at the sound of the dogs barking.
If all this seems too good to be true---------that's because it is !!

[maggie]

That's a point,lebaleb.

It is a point, the guilters argue that Jeremy was stalling for time and that is a possibility but infact I cannot see what difference it would have made as the raid team wouldn't have entered WHF any quicker if Jeremy had caled 999, would they?

[maggie]

That is actually a very good point.

Have said this before, but I think that Jeremy was very confused as to what to do and afraid of doing the wrong thing. Sheila had had episodes before, she seemed to have them during night time and early hours of the morning. Jeremy couldn´t know the seriosness and what Nevill wanted him to do. He said, come over, he didn´t say, call the police. Jeremy must also have thought: why didn´t dad call the police instead of me? That probably made Jeremy think it wasn´t such a grave emergency as it turned out to be.
Who would think that, anyway? You don´t immediately think that your sister will kill anyone, do you?

Jeremy called Julie for advise. I believe he called her before calling the police. He said, everything is going well (with me, but) something is wrong at the farm.

He went for a compromise calling the local cops, afraid of Nevill´s reaction if police cars were sent to the farm with howling sirenes.

It all makes sense to me.

Completely agree, Alias.  It makes total sense to me as well.

[susan]

Hi Alias/Maggie had I been in Jeremy's situation I would have jumped in my car and gone straight over to WHF I would not have wasted time phoning Julie or looking for the local police stations number.  Hey ho that is me and that does not mean to say he should have done that.

[maggie]

Hi Alias/Maggie had I been in Jeremy's situation I would have jumped in my car and gone straight over to WHF I would not have wasted time phoning Julie or looking for the local police stations number.  Hey ho that is me and that does not mean to say he should have done that.

Everyone behaves differently in such a situation and having been in a similar situation myself, fortunately with a very different outcome, I can only comment from my behaviour at that time.  I did go over, I knew the police had been called and I became very methodical dressing slowly and then driving slowly and carefully.  I remember thinking I don't want to be stopped for speeding or have an accident. It was 2am and I was on country roads, I behaved in a similar way to Jeremy.  Shock and fear slows you down and everything seems to move more slowly, a little like when you have an accident. It's possible Jeremy felt like that.  I do think until you experience such a situation no one knows how they will react and the idea of roaring off at 90 miles an hour seems the most likely reaction until your in it. Fact is yu are scared to arrive because of what you may have to face.

[Mr. Gee]

It is a point, the guilters argue that Jeremy was stalling for time and that is a possibility but in fact I cannot see what difference it would have made as the raid team wouldn't have entered WHF any quicker if Jeremy had called 999, would they?

Yes it is a fallacy invented by some that Jeremy was stalling for time so that it fits nicely into their scenarios. But personally I cannot see the argument, as it would make no difference when the police turned up. Any mention of firearms and the police would not be rushing in there any time fast.
Also the argument that anyone else would rush over to WHF in order to disarm Sheila is just a throw away remark by some as no one would know what another or themselves would do?

[lookout]

I rather feel that Jeremy had the sort of life where others made his mind up for him,and it was no different when it came to this,as he felt that he had to phone JM to see what she'd make of the situation and was hoping for a more positive answer than the one he got.
There are a lot of people who have to be " carried " through life,as Mrs Foakes had told the police " Jeremy didn't have the gumption to have murdered the family ". He was no decision-maker when young.
This is the clear picture that I get of him in his younger days. He probably needed a good kick up the backside to get him going. Not exactly murdering material to be as indecisive as he was.

[susan]

Maggie you could well be right I have never been in a situation like you or Jeremy Bamber.  I get mixed messages on the forum as some say he may not have taken the situation very seriously and this is why he phoned Julie for advice what to do (she told him to go back to bed )  If he had been nervous and scared and afraid of what he may have found at the farm why waste time phoning Julie hit the 999 and go over to arrive with the police or shortly behind them.  As I said we all see things differently.  None of us really know if Jeremy did think his sister was dangerous and he was afraid of going to his Father's aid.As I have said on other occasions I always respect other posters views and would never be so arrogant to say their views are wrong and Maggie I know you to be like me in that respect.

[Jane]

I rather feel that Jeremy had the sort of life where others made his mind up for him,and it was no different when it came to this,as he felt that he had to phone JM to see what she'd make of the situation and was hoping for a more positive answer than the one he got.
There are a lot of people who have to be " carried " through life,as Mrs Foakes had told the police " Jeremy didn't have the gumption to have murdered the family ". He was no decision-maker when young.
This is the clear picture that I get of him in his younger days. He probably needed a good kick up the backside to get him going. Not exactly murdering material to be as indecisive as he was.

Lookout, I would agree that Jeremy had probably been somewhat idle all his life. This may have come from not having an emotional sense of place. He knew what he was destined for but that's not the same thing. It MAY have been, that knowing what was his destiny -and if it had been one he didn't care for- there was no point in exerting himself intellectually. He certainly didn't need a Phd to farm. I don't think it can be said that it didn't make for murderer material. Who knows what resentments may have been building up if he felt a future was being planned for and expected of him without asking his opinion, PLUS watching his sister and her children appearing to get money lavished on them without having to lift a finger. I wonder if he felt he was working to support them.

[maggie]

Maggie you could well be right I have never been in a situation like you or Jeremy Bamber.  I get mixed messages on the forum as some say he may not have taken the situation very seriously and this is why he phoned Julie for advice what to do (she told him to go back to bed )  If he had been nervous and scared and afraid of what he may have found at the farm why waste time phoning Julie hit the 999 and go over to arrive with the police or shortly behind them.  As I said we all see things differently.  None of us really know if Jeremy did think his sister was dangerous and he was afraid of going to his Father's aid.As I have said on other occasions I always respect other posters views and would never be so arrogant to say their views are wrong and Maggie I know you to be like me in that respect.

I agree it can also depend on a persons temperament, sone people are calm and methodical under pressure while otyhers can fall to pieces and find it inpossible to function,  There are so many variables it's impossible to judge imo.

[lookout]

Lookout, I would agree that Jeremy had probably been somewhat idle all his life. This may have come from not having an emotional sense of place. He knew what he was destined for but that's not the same thing. It MAY have been, that knowing what was his destiny -and if it had been one he didn't care for- there was no point in exerting himself intellectually. He certainly didn't need a Phd to farm. I don't think it can be said that it didn't make for murderer material. Who knows what resentments may have been building up if he felt a future was being planned for and expected of him without asking his opinion, PLUS watching his sister and her children appearing to get money lavished on them without having to lift a finger. I wonder if he felt he was working to support them.

It certainly wouldn't have bothered him seeing his sister and children being treated by June and Neville,as afterall,he'd done well out of them and he also had a regular well paid job even if he wasn't that keen on it,because I don't think he wanted to get his hands dirty or be classed as a farm labourer.
I think also,that Jeremy would have done what he'd wanted to do rather than feel it was his destiny to remain under the thumbs of his parents. So no,I don't think Jeremy gave a fig to be honest how much help was going to whoever. He had women on his mind and sadly didn't really think about anyone else,as young men don't at that age.

[Alias]

Maggie you could well be right I have never been in a situation like you or Jeremy Bamber.  I get mixed messages on the forum as some say he may not have taken the situation very seriously and this is why he phoned Julie for advice what to do (she told him to go back to bed ) If he had been nervous and scared and afraid of what he may have found at the farm why waste time phoning Julie hit the 999 and go over to arrive with the police or shortly behind them.  As I said we all see things differently.  None of us really know if Jeremy did think his sister was dangerous and he was afraid of going to his Father's aid.As I have said on other occasions I always respect other posters views and would never be so arrogant to say their views are wrong and Maggie I know you to be like me in that respect.

Maybe because she knew there had been episodes with Sheila before.