The curious case of the Sheila's last two bullets.

[lebaleb]

The Boutflours didn't know if there were any bullets left in the magazine. If there had been they would surely have been sent for fingerprinting. Aware of that fact, they were worried that Shiela's thumb print would be found on the unspent bullets... what to do? Up pops Boutflour snr with the 'Jeremy getting Shiela to load the magazine' story. He had to say she wouldn't do it because she wasn't supposed to know how to reload the gun. He even talks about them having found Shiela's prints on a couple of bullets 'but not on the magazine.

[mike tesko]

Suggestion both bullets fired from same gun can no longer be entertained...

[mike tesko]

EP arranged for the original fragmented bullet (PV/20) to be substituted for a whole bullet. So that they could claim the same gun, fired both bullets...

[mike tesko]

From 7th August 1985, to 20th September 1985, the fragmented bullet (PV/20), existed, as an exhibit - evidence that was captured on X-rays, and referred to by the pathologist who physically removed the fragmented pieces of bullet from SC's neck - yet, EP replaced it with a control bullet, so that they could make the false claim, that the same gun fired the two bullets. The original fragmented bullet has not been seen since 20th September 1985, what did EP do with it? Should we the public put up with and tolorate such acts of wickedness? Surely not...

[Hartley]

Mike can I ask where you have obtained the information that PV/20 was once fragmented but is now whole?

The x-rays which you state as showing a fragmented bullet, are they your interpretation or have they been interpreted by an expert?

D. Taylor stated in a 'General Examination Record' that PV/20 was 'extensively damaged- prob. hit bone' and that it weighed 1.5453g. I don't seem to be able to find any mention that the bullet was in more than one piece.

Also the ballistics expert states that he microscopically compared test fired bullets and cartridges and all 25 bullets and cartridges taken from the scene and formed the opinion that all the wounds to the deceased were caused by bullets discharged from the Anshulz rifle.

As you can see this is in conflict with your opinion.

EDIT:
Another also , could you explain why a fragmented bullet could not have been fired from the same weapon, I can't quite grasp why if it was fragmented, would it indicate that it was discharged from a different weapon to a whole bullet.

[mb1]

Think the official line is that the x-ray shows a bullet and displaced tissues.

The alien/re-deposited tissue could have been caused by the second bullet, but that's my conjecture.

Otherwise MT is claiming the bullet fragmented into 4 (I think) pieces as the X-ray shows three 'rogues' in a different position to the actual bullet.
Yet the bullet to her brain countered both more and less yielding tissue and remained intact.

Mike needs to provide an expert opinion that is tested and testable.

[mike tesko]

Expert pathologist, Peter Venezis, produced an autopsy report, in which he describes the bullet having struck a bone and fragmented upon impact - the X-ray confirms his findings..

[Hartley]

Expert pathologist, Peter Venezis, produced an autopsy report, in which he describes the bullet having struck a bone and fragmented upon impact - the X-ray confirms his findings..

Is this the same report which mentions about scratches to Sheila's arms? If so have you had any luck in locating it so we can see it?

And just for the sake of argument, would I be right in saying that if there were two bullets, one whole and one fragmented, then the only reason the fragmented bullet couldn't be linked to the Anshulz rifle is due to it's condition?

[mb1]

Expert pathologist, Peter Venezis, produced an autopsy report, in which he describes the bullet having struck a bone and fragmented upon impact - the X-ray confirms his findings..

Which bullet? Which bone?

Can you post the segment/s of the report dealing with both bullets.

[Hartley]

Expert pathologist, Peter Venezis, produced an autopsy report, in which he describes the bullet having struck a bone and fragmented upon impact - the X-ray confirms his findings..

Is this the same report which mentions about scratches to Sheila's arms? If so have you had any luck in locating it so we can see it?

And just for the sake of argument, would I be right in saying that if there were two bullets, one whole and one fragmented, then the only reason the fragmented bullet couldn't be linked to the Anshulz rifle is due to it's condition?

Expert pathologist, Peter Venezis, produced an autopsy report, in which he describes the bullet having struck a bone and fragmented upon impact - the X-ray confirms his findings..

Which bullet? Which bone?

Can you post the segment/s of the report dealing with both bullets.

Mike T, do you any response to these questions?

[mb1]

With regard to the number of bullets - any thoughts on Ann Eaton's statement regarding the identification of Sheila's body?

Apologies for a grim question, but the answer might have a bearing.
Does anyone know if the identification was carried out after the post-mortem examination had taken place?

[Janet (Formerly known as Takeshi)]

With regard to the number of bullets - any thoughts on Ann Eaton's statement regarding the identification of Sheila's body?

Do you mean that JM said she had been shot once in the neck? If you think about how bodies are "laid out" for identification, it is very similar to how you would see them in a coffin. With Sheila's body in this sort of position, and bearing in mind that she had been cleaned, I can imagine that her wounds were not very visible.

A conversation between JM and the police officer present something along the lines of "Where was she shot?" answer "Once under the chin" maybe.

I can't remember when she identified the bodies, does anyone know off hand? I just presumed it would be after post mortem.

[bob]

I know! The fact that the gun had no more bullets has puzzled me too.

Is it not possible that Sheila wasn't the last person shot? i.e. the reason the gun was empty was that JB (or some third party, of course) pumped all remaining bullets into the last victim, or possibly an already dead victim, before taking the empty gun back to the bedroom to stage the suicide?

[mb1]

I know! The fact that the gun had no more bullets has puzzled me too.

Is it not possible that Sheila wasn't the last person shot? i.e. the reason the gun was empty was that JB (or some third party, of course) pumped all remaining bullets into the last victim, or possibly an already dead victim, before taking the empty gun back to the bedroom to stage the suicide?

Absolutely.

[chelmsey]

With regard to the number of bullets - any thoughts on Ann Eaton's statement regarding the identification of Sheila's body?

Apologies for a grim question, but the answer might have a bearing.
Does anyone know if the identification was carried out after the post-mortem examination had taken place?

MB1.........I think the answer to your question would be yes,because JM whilst identifiying the bodies,asked why their heads had been shaved.