Telephone issue - Extravaganza...

[mike tesko]

The thing I can't get my head around is that if the log were written in accordance with ONLY Jeremy's call - why does one state Sheila's age as 27 (Jeremy's call) and the other as 26 (Neville's call)? How could that get lost in translation? It doesn't even sound the same!!

Hi Caroline,

I think this difference could be put down to an operational matter - for example, imagine that Ralph and his family were under a protection program involving special branch, which had been on going for some months, and in those circumstances, Sheila's age may have been recorded as 26 years, from the point when the family fell under the protection scheme. When was it Sheila's birthday? How old was she when she died on 7th August 1985? Alternatively, the age difference may show up because of the different interpretations adopted by Ralph (in his call) and Jeremy (in his call), where Ralph meant that Sheila was in her 27th year, and Jeremy mentioned that she was 26 years on her last birthday...

[mike tesko]

Hi Caroline,

I think this difference could be put down to an operational matter - for example, imagine that Ralph and his family were under a protection program involving special branch, which had been on going for some months, and in those circumstances, Sheila's age may have been recorded as 26 years, from the point when the family fell under the protection scheme. When was it Sheila's birthday? How old was she when she died on 7th August 1985? Alternatively, the age difference may show up because of the different interpretations adopted by Ralph (in his call) and Jeremy (in his call), where Ralph meant that Sheila was in her 27th year, and Jeremy mentioned that she was 26 years on her last birthday...

I agree, that 27 does not remotely sound like 26 years, so there has to be some other explanation for this discrepancy between both logs...

[grahameb]

A great deal has been made by police, and their supporters, to suggest that the 3;26am log contents, are merely a duplication of Jeremy's call in log 3:36am, and that this has arose because of a discrepancy in the time keeping in different departments at police headquarters, but that explanation is nothing but a blatant lie...

[/color=red]It can be shown to be a lie, because in Jeremy's call to police (see log 3:36am), he never makes any mention of his fathers gun collection of shotguns and .410's...[/color]

That is a good point Mike.

[mike tesko]

I agree, that 27 does not remotely sound like 26 years, so there has to be some other explanation for this discrepancy between both logs...

You cannot explain this discrepancy away by claiming its a duplicated record of the same call, recorded separately involving a clock that was 10 minutes fast or slow...

[maggie]

Hi Caroline,
I think this difference could be put down to an operational matter - for example, imagine that Ralph and his family were under a protection program involving special branch, which had been on going for some months, and in those circumstances, Sheila's age may have been recorded as 26 years, from the point when the family fell under the protection scheme. When was it Sheila's birthday? How old was she when she died on 7th August 1985? Alternatively, the age difference may show up because of the different interpretations adopted by Ralph (in his call) and Jeremy (in his call), where Ralph meant that Sheila was in her 27th year, and Jeremy mentioned that she was 26 years on her last birthday...

Or it could simply be that fathers and brothers aren't that hot on remembering birthdays and ages of family members. I know my husband always asks me how old our children are.

[mike tesko]

That is a good point Mike.

Hi Grahame,

There is, however, some evidence that upon arrival of CA07 (3:48am) and Jeremy (3:52am) at the scene, there was some exchange of information regarding Mr Bambers (senior) gun collection of shotguns, and .410's, when PS Bews and PC Myall asked Jeremy who his sister was more likely to be upset at seeing, and to shoot at? This was mentioned to Jeremy by police before Bews / Myall and Jeremy set off to have a look around the perimeter of the farmhouse...

This took place at around 4am...

So, it should be obvious to most that there was a delay of about 24 minutes, before Jeremy made any mention of his fathers gun collection to the occupants of CA07, and that this did not get mentioned by Jeremy until police raised the question at the scene, long after Jeremy himself had made his 3:36am call to police, as per the contents of log 3:36am...

[mike tesko]

Or it could simply be that fathers and brothers aren't that hot on remembering birthdays and ages of family members. I know my husband always asks me how old our children are.

Hi maggie,

another good point, which falls into the melting pot...

[mike tesko]

Hi Grahame,

There is, however, some evidence that upon arrival of CA07 (3:48am) and Jeremy (3:52am) at the scene, there was some exchange of information regarding Mr Bambers (senior) gun collection of shotguns, and .410's, when PS Bews and PC Myall asked Jeremy who his sister was more likely to be upset at seeing, and to shoot at? This was mentioned to Jeremy by police before Bews / Myall and Jeremy set off to have a look around the perimeter of the farmhouse...

This took place at around 4am...

So, it should be obvious to most that there was a delay of about 24 minutes, before Jeremy made any mention of his fathers gun collection to the occupants of CA07, and that this did not get mentioned by Jeremy until police raised the question at the scene, long after Jeremy himself had made his 3:36am call to police, as per the contents of log 3:36am...

Bearing this in mind, why add reference to Mr Bamber (seniors) gun collection of shotguns and .410's, onto the back end of Ralph Bambers 3:26am phone log, but fail to make any mention of it on Jeremy's phone log timed at 3:36am?

[maggie]

Hi maggie,

another good point, which falls into the melting pot...

Yes Mike Sheila was 27, so Neville was on the ball  but makes total sense to me that Jeremy thought she was 26. I would think that was normal for a brother to not quite know his sister's age.

[mike tesko]

Yes Mike Sheila was 27, so Neville was on the ball  but makes total sense to me that Jeremy thought she was 26. I would think that was normal for a brother to not quite know his sister's age.

I agree with that, maggie...

[mike tesko]

Why isn't there any mention of the deployment of occupants CA07 in Jeremy's 3:36am phone log, only Bonnets 3:26am, log?

There are other discrepancies involving the occupants of CA07, which raise suspicion regarding their involvement at the scene...

[mike tesko]

Why isn't there any mention of the deployment of occupants CA07 in Jeremy's 3:36am phone log, only Bonnets 3:26am, log?

There are other discrepancies involving the occupants of CA07, which raise suspicion regarding their involvement at the scene...

CA07 occupants were involved (1) - when mention was made by the raid team, of two bodies having been found upon entry, the body of one dead male, and the body of one dead female. (2) - Bews and Myall (CA07) were involved in the sighting of the silhouetted figure at the bedroom window, which has subsequently been explained away as having been nothing but a trick of light. Additionally, (3) - PS Saxby (CA07) received a complaint from Jeremy at the scene, at which stage Jeremy accused police of shooting dead all his family, when armed forced their way into the farmhouse...

At 07:38am, CA07 passed the following information to the control room from the scene - so by that / this stage, CA07 occupants were fully aware that two bodies were found upon entry to the premises, not one body, mistakenly identified as one dead male and one dead female...

[mike tesko]

Careful study of the content of the above log, reveals other telling features which cannot easily be ignored - since, far from there having been some sort of a mistake, where police originally saw what was believed to be a dead female behind the door in the kitchen, which turned out to be the body of Ralph Bamber, if that be the case, why do CA07 mention one dead male, before mentioning one dead female, in the message they pass from the scene, to the control room?

[mike tesko]

Even more significantly, is the FACT that at the time the occupants of CA07 were relaying a message from the scene to the control room, that two bodies had been found upon entry to the premises, more precisely, the body of "one dead male, and one dead female,  found upon entry to the premises", Inspector Norman back in the control room was receiving confirmation of the same via the open exchange line from the scene, as evidenced by examination of the police document upon which these details were recorded...

[mike tesko]

So, not only did the occupants of CA07 relay information from the scene at 7:38am, that the raid team had discovered the bodies of a dead male and a dead female upon entry to the premises, but the control room had the benefit of the open exchange line from the kitchen phone at the scene, to confirm that two bodies had been found in that paert of the farmhouse, at the same time as CA07's radio message...