Photograph of Shiela on the bed

[mike tesko]

Its a sad state of affairs when the opposition have to adopt such an approach...

What!!!! Opposition, we're just a few members of the public looking at things for ourselves, we're not the prosecution.

That has has to be the most ridiculous statement you have posted on here.

....in my opinion.

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Stop being pathetic...

[Kaldin]

My claims have got evidence to back them up - you don't appear to have any...

Your attempts at trying to ridicule anything that is being said, is a joke, and disrespectful...

If anyone was starting to get personal, it was you - and you don't like it when anyone starts to give it back - tough..

You're not showing that evidence though, and yet you expect everyone to just believe what you claim, no matter how far fetched it is.

I'm not ridiculing anything, and quite frankly your attitude is starting to annoy me. I've conceded many points to you because I'm not biased and I'm looking at the evidence which has been presented, whether it supports guilt or innocence. Your bias, on the other hand, stands out like a neon sign. You refuse to accept any kind of logic and you refuse to answer questions which don't fit in with your theories.

[jon]

They were all killed by Martians...

Scully and Mulder know about this, and told me so, but it's very hush hush. I'd like to show you the images, but I can't.
Last time I tried, the FBI manipulated my site and replaced the evidence with photos of Venusians, which of course everybody knows is totally unbelievable. That was their attempt to discredit me.

Where the Martians Paranoid Schizophrenics ?

[mike tesko]

Does anyone know anything more about the training exercise?  What would this have entailed, exactly?  This thread seems a good place to ask, since it appears that the movement of Sheila's body must have taken place around that time (if we accept the information JB's solicitor obtained from his meeting with Dr Craig and his wife).  I shouldn't think it's worth starting a new thread.  I just wondered whether there is anyone reading this who actually knows from their own experience about the sort of training exercise which apparently took place at WHF.

None took place, it's a total myth.

I'm waiting for somebody to come forward with ONE other documented case of a murder where some reenactment took place with the bodies still in situ.

It beggars belief.

A week later? retracing footsteps? yes, perfectly believable.

-----------------------

It did take place, and you are misleading anyone and everyone by suggesting that such an exercise did not take place - police records now in the possession of Jeremy confirm that such an exercise did take place...

When the truth comes out, you will eat your words regarding this matter, and your comments...

Well without that evidence, I don't blame people for thinking it didn't happen. It sounds extremely unlikely to me as well.

------------------------

You are asking me to post the evidence that proves that such an exercise did take place, against Jeremy's instructions. I have assured him that I will leave that part of his case to him, and his legal team, but I would direct you to information that was published in a national newspaper, where Jeremy accuses Essex police of using the bodies of his family, as "props", during a training exercise, when these events did take place, between (a) 9am and 9:22am, and (b) between 10:35am and 11:35am...

Why would Jeremy be informing the press that such an exercise did take place, if it had not?

Think about it, Do you not think that Jeremy would have some proof about this, before he informed the press?

Why would Jeremy put himself in such a position, without any evidence in his opossesion to back up what he is claiming?

Well look, the CCRC rejected his appeal so why would they do that if he had proof that Sheila was alive in the kitchen and then went upstairs and killed herself on the bed?

-------------------------

Hang on a minute, CCRC have not fully rejected his application - its only a provisional decision...

Well if there was evidence that the police ignored an injured person and then allowed her to shoot herself, and evidence that the police covered that up, I think an appeal would have been granted straightaway, don't you?

-----------------------

If the argument has been put properly, then yes, there ought to have been an appeal, based upon that...

[Kaldin]

I object to being told I'm muddying the waters. The issue of Sheila is one thing but I've also been told that June was moved, that June was on her back, that the rug from her side of the bed was moved for no apparent reason, and that she was propped up against the door by the police!

Every time someone tries to discuss thing logically, in comes Mike with yet more unsubstantiated theories and he accuses others of muddying the waters! 

--------------------

Evidence exists to back up everything that I have been saying - but there is no evidence to back up your counter arguments...

Once again, you adopt the  "must try to ridicule Mike", approach -  which indicates that you do not have a constructive reply or answer to thew points being raised. Its a sad state of affairs when the opposition have to adopt such an approach...

I have not ridiculed you. I stood up for you when horseydave made his dreadful accusations, and I've been very patient with you despite your blatant bias.

[Hartley]

Its a sad state of affairs when the opposition have to adopt such an approach...

What!!!! Opposition, we're just a few members of the public looking at things for ourselves, we're not the prosecution.

That has has to be the most ridiculous statement you have posted on here.

....in my opinion.

----------------

Stop being pathetic...

I really am not, you've just said it's a sad state of affairs when the opposition etc etc etc.... As I said how ridiculous.

[mike tesko]

My claims have got evidence to back them up - you don't appear to have any...

Your attempts at trying to ridicule anything that is being said, is a joke, and disrespectful...

If anyone was starting to get personal, it was you - and you don't like it when anyone starts to give it back - tough..

----------------------

You're not showing that evidence though, and yet you expect everyone to just believe what you claim, no matter how far fetched it is.

I'm not ridiculing anything, and quite frankly your attitude is starting to annoy me. I've conceded many points to you because I'm not biased and I'm looking at the evidence which has been presented, whether it supports guilt or innocence. Your bias, on the other hand, stands out like a neon sign. You refuse to accept any kind of logic and you refuse to answer questions which don't fit in with your theories.

....

I have already provided enough evidence for there to be sufficient doubt in this case - although much more does exist. Witness statement contents, police radio message log contents and other Lab' and police records, is evidence for the purposes of any proceedings in court, in pursuance of this matter...

No matter how may times you try to say or suggest that such material is not evidence, it will alway be evidence...

[mike tesko]

I object to being told I'm muddying the waters. The issue of Sheila is one thing but I've also been told that June was moved, that June was on her back, that the rug from her side of the bed was moved for no apparent reason, and that she was propped up against the door by the police!

Every time someone tries to discuss thing logically, in comes Mike with yet more unsubstantiated theories and he accuses others of muddying the waters! 

--------------------

Evidence exists to back up everything that I have been saying - but there is no evidence to back up your counter arguments...

Once again, you adopt the  "must try to ridicule Mike", approach -  which indicates that you do not have a constructive reply or answer to thew points being raised. Its a sad state of affairs when the opposition have to adopt such an approach...

I have not ridiculed you. I stood up for you when horseydave made his dreadful accusations, and I've been very patient with you despite your blatant bias.

--------------

I don't need nobody to stand up for me, I did nothing of the sort, and that person is a despicable individual whom ought really be taken to the gallows, and hung by the neck...

in my view...

[Hartley]

If it isn't holding up to scrutiny in these forums then how is it expected to hold up in court?

[mike tesko]

Its a sad state of affairs when the opposition have to adopt such an approach...

What!!!! Opposition, we're just a few members of the public looking at things for ourselves, we're not the prosecution.

That has has to be the most ridiculous statement you have posted on here.

....in my opinion.

----------------

Stop being pathetic...

I really am not, you've just said it's a sad state of affairs when the opposition etc etc etc.... As I said how ridiculous.

---------------

You were and are being ridiculous - How come it is only evidence (in your view) if it supports your theories, and your ideas, or perspective?

[mike tesko]

If it isn't holding up to scrutiny in these forums then how is it expected to hold up in court?

---------------

Your problem, and the problem with others who hold such views, is that when it comes to court, the very things which you say is not evidence, is evidence - what matters is the interpretation of that evidence, and how it bears up to other material which is relied upon as evidence, and its meaning or purpose in the case, or the matter, under consideration?

Now, I don't mind discussing anything with anyone about this case, but I object in the strongest terms necessary, or possible, to any claim that there is no evidence to support the views I am expressing in these matters...

I accept that people will have differing views, but to continually keep claiming that there is no evidence to support what I am saying, is out of order...

I would not say anything about this case, unless there was some evidence to support such a view...

[Kaldin]

My claims have got evidence to back them up - you don't appear to have any...

Your attempts at trying to ridicule anything that is being said, is a joke, and disrespectful...

If anyone was starting to get personal, it was you - and you don't like it when anyone starts to give it back - tough..

----------------------

You're not showing that evidence though, and yet you expect everyone to just believe what you claim, no matter how far fetched it is.

I'm not ridiculing anything, and quite frankly your attitude is starting to annoy me. I've conceded many points to you because I'm not biased and I'm looking at the evidence which has been presented, whether it supports guilt or innocence. Your bias, on the other hand, stands out like a neon sign. You refuse to accept any kind of logic and you refuse to answer questions which don't fit in with your theories.

....

I have already provided enough evidence for there to be sufficient doubt in this case - although much more does exist. Witness statement contents, police radio message log contents and other Lab' and police records, is evidence for the purposes of any proceedings in court, in pursuance of this matter...

No matter how may times you try to say or suggest that such material is not evidence, it will alway be evidence...

Doubt, yes, but that's not evidence of the kind which enables anyone to state something happened as a fact. You've stated so many "facts" which turned out not to be facts at all, so obviously I'm not taking your word at face value for anything.

Of course I have doubt. If I was convinced Jeremy had done it I wouldn't be here - there would be nothing to say as he's in prison and he's likely to stay there for some time.

[Hartley]

Its a sad state of affairs when the opposition have to adopt such an approach...

What!!!! Opposition, we're just a few members of the public looking at things for ourselves, we're not the prosecution.

That has has to be the most ridiculous statement you have posted on here.

....in my opinion.

----------------

Stop being pathetic...

I really am not, you've just said it's a sad state of affairs when the opposition etc etc etc.... As I said how ridiculous.

---------------

You were and are being ridiculous - How come it is only evidence (in your view) if it supports your theories, and your ideas, or perspective?

It's not only evidence in mine or anybody elses view. Lots of things can be deemed as evidence for lots of different things. The strength of that particular evidence is what is, and has been discussed.

That is also how the CCRC have described things, certain pieces of evidence which conflict with each other but one piece is deemed stronger than the other.

There are many discrepancies in the evidence in this case, but none which I have seen and interpreted as being stronger than the evidence used in the conviction.

But anyway, my opinion or anybody else's opinion on this forum is irrelevant, we're not the ones that need convincing, we're interested in the case and discussing theories, that's all.

[Kaldin]

The problem is that those who are convinced of Jeremy's innocence pick and choose which bits of the police evidence to believe. They also disbelieve Julie Mugford and the other relatives one minute, and then suddenly believe them if it suits them to do so.

[Kaldin]

If it isn't holding up to scrutiny in these forums then how is it expected to hold up in court?

---------------

Your problem, and the problem with others who hold such views, is that when it comes to court, the very things which you say is not evidence, is evidence - what matters is the interpretation of that evidence, and how it bears up to other material which is relied upon as evidence, and its meaning or purpose in the case, or the matter, under consideration?

Now, I don't mind discussing anything with anyone about this case, but I object in the strongest terms necessary, or possible, to any claim that there is no evidence to support the views I am expressing in these matters...

I accept that people will have differing views, but to continually keep claiming that there is no evidence to support what I am saying, is out of order...

I would not say anything about this case, unless there was some evidence to support such a view...

You wanted a forum and you have one - if you don't want anyone to challenge what you say perhaps a blog would have been better - with guest comments switched off.