Photograph of Shiela on the bed

[Kaldin]

Why would the police TAKE photos of incriminating evidence then have to hide them?

oh wait, they didn't realise it would be incriminating at the time eh?

They thought they'd take photos of someone on a bed, then move her (cos they really wanted the bed situation 'hush hush' but a photo for posterity?)

The way it's being told at the moment, June and Sheila covered more bloody (literally) floorspace than Strictly Come Dancing's entire season and assumed more positions than the Karma Sutra.

---------------------

Joke all you want about it, but this is a serious situation - I see what the tactic is here, try to ridicule what took place as some sort of a joke...

I don't think he's doing that. It's just that there have been so many theories about bodies being moved and people moving around the house it's impossible to understand it.

----------------------

There's nothing complicated about it - the police stage managed the scene...

and they blamed Jeremy for doing what the police, themselves did...

Police stage managed scene to promote the idea that Sheila took her own life...

Of course it's complicated. There have been theories about June walking round the room, lying on her front, lying on her back, being propped up against the door ....

Sheila's been in the kitchen, on the bed, on the floor next to the bed, with the gun, without the gun, with the Bible, without the Bible ....

------------------

Stop trying to muddy the waters, Sheila was originally found downstairs, mistakenly presumed to be dead, she regained consciousness and fled upstairs and ended up dead in the main bedroom. The police moved her body from the bed to the bedroom floor, and they planted the rifle on her body and took pictures - there is nothing remotely complicated about it. This is what happened, and this is what the police did to cover up for the fact that they made a serious mistake, which led to Sheila's death in the bedroom - she need not have died at all in the bedroom, but she did die there because the police got it wrong about her suicide in the kitchen earlier...

Nothing too complicated about that...

In my opinion...

You're the one claiming that Sheila shot herself in the kitchen and managed to get upstairs to shoot herself again without anyone noticing, and then they pretended she killed herself to cover up the fact that she killed herself, and you're accusing me of muddying the waters? 

[Kaldin]

If Jeremy and his team had such evidence, they'd not be risking it by telling you (and you coming on here telling us, and potentially compromising his case)

I believe they might tell you of some things, but nothing that is THAT astonishing that it's prove beyond doubt he's innocent.

I'm not trying to be disrespectful, but if I was an innocent man and had such evidence that would clear me I'd do one of two things...

1) Shout it from the rooftops and publicise it for the world to see
2) Keep it incredibly secret, because I wouldn't dare risk compromising my defence prior it being heard.

I just wouldn't be telling (even a good friend) who runs a web forum about it.

One would also expect him to appeal on the grounds that the police hid the fact that Sheila was alive in the house when they got in. If he has done so, then surely the CCRC wouldn't have rejected the appeal.

[Kaldin]

Why would Jeremy be informing the press that such an exercise did take place, if it had not?

Think about it, Do you not think that Jeremy would have some proof about this, before he informed the press?

Why would Jeremy put himself in such a position, without any evidence in his opossesion to back up what he is claiming?

Well he told the press that Nevill called the police, there's no evidence to back that up either.

(not that I want to enter that particular topic again, that's been discussed to death in ever decreasing circles).

Exactly ...

[mike tesko]

If Jeremy and his team had such evidence, they'd not be risking it by telling you (and you coming on here telling us, and potentially compromising his case)

I believe they might tell you of some things, but nothing that is THAT astonishing that it's prove beyond doubt he's innocent.

I'm not trying to be disrespectful, but if I was an innocent man and had such evidence that would clear me I'd do one of two things...

1) Shout it from the rooftops and publicise it for the world to see
2) Keep it incredibly secret, because I wouldn't dare risk compromising my defence prior it being heard.

I just wouldn't be telling (even a good friend) who runs a web forum about it.

-------------------------------------

With respect, which is why he has produced the evidence to the press - and why they chose to report about it...

Such an exercise did take place, and Essex police and the DPP / CPS, know that such an exercise did take place. It is not for me to have to prove that it took place, I will leave it to Jeremy to prove that as and when the moment arises. So, your attempt to try and ridicule me, in some way, is meaningless and pointless, why don't you have a go at the press who published the article, and to whom Jeremy has already made available to them the evidence upon which his claim is based?

I think its rather pathetic that you keep trying to suggest that the police would not lie, and that everybody and anybody connected with the case, must have all conspired together with a view to getting an innocent man convicted for crimes he did not and could not have committed...

In my opinion, people who hold such views as you do, do not live in the real world, where such things do often happen...

[mike tesko]

Does anyone know anything more about the training exercise?  What would this have entailed, exactly?  This thread seems a good place to ask, since it appears that the movement of Sheila's body must have taken place around that time (if we accept the information JB's solicitor obtained from his meeting with Dr Craig and his wife).  I shouldn't think it's worth starting a new thread.  I just wondered whether there is anyone reading this who actually knows from their own experience about the sort of training exercise which apparently took place at WHF.

None took place, it's a total myth.

I'm waiting for somebody to come forward with ONE other documented case of a murder where some reenactment took place with the bodies still in situ.

It beggars belief.

A week later? retracing footsteps? yes, perfectly believable.

-----------------------

It did take place, and you are misleading anyone and everyone by suggesting that such an exercise did not take place - police records now in the possession of Jeremy confirm that such an exercise did take place...

When the truth comes out, you will eat your words regarding this matter, and your comments...

Well without that evidence, I don't blame people for thinking it didn't happen. It sounds extremely unlikely to me as well.

------------------------

You are asking me to post the evidence that proves that such an exercise did take place, against Jeremy's instructions. I have assured him that I will leave that part of his case to him, and his legal team, but I would direct you to information that was published in a national newspaper, where Jeremy accuses Essex police of using the bodies of his family, as "props", during a training exercise, when these events did take place, between (a) 9am and 9:22am, and (b) between 10:35am and 11:35am...

Why would Jeremy be informing the press that such an exercise did take place, if it had not?

Think about it, Do you not think that Jeremy would have some proof about this, before he informed the press?

Why would Jeremy put himself in such a position, without any evidence in his opossesion to back up what he is claiming?

Well look, the CCRC rejected his appeal so why would they do that if he had proof that Sheila was alive in the kitchen and then went upstairs and killed herself on the bed?

-------------------------

Hang on a minute, CCRC have not fully rejected his application - its only a provisional decision...

[Kaldin]

Does anyone know anything more about the training exercise?  What would this have entailed, exactly?  This thread seems a good place to ask, since it appears that the movement of Sheila's body must have taken place around that time (if we accept the information JB's solicitor obtained from his meeting with Dr Craig and his wife).  I shouldn't think it's worth starting a new thread.  I just wondered whether there is anyone reading this who actually knows from their own experience about the sort of training exercise which apparently took place at WHF.

None took place, it's a total myth.

I'm waiting for somebody to come forward with ONE other documented case of a murder where some reenactment took place with the bodies still in situ.

It beggars belief.

A week later? retracing footsteps? yes, perfectly believable.

-----------------------

It did take place, and you are misleading anyone and everyone by suggesting that such an exercise did not take place - police records now in the possession of Jeremy confirm that such an exercise did take place...

When the truth comes out, you will eat your words regarding this matter, and your comments...

Well without that evidence, I don't blame people for thinking it didn't happen. It sounds extremely unlikely to me as well.

------------------------

You are asking me to post the evidence that proves that such an exercise did take place, against Jeremy's instructions. I have assured him that I will leave that part of his case to him, and his legal team, but I would direct you to information that was published in a national newspaper, where Jeremy accuses Essex police of using the bodies of his family, as "props", during a training exercise, when these events did take place, between (a) 9am and 9:22am, and (b) between 10:35am and 11:35am...

Why would Jeremy be informing the press that such an exercise did take place, if it had not?

Think about it, Do you not think that Jeremy would have some proof about this, before he informed the press?

Why would Jeremy put himself in such a position, without any evidence in his opossesion to back up what he is claiming?

Well look, the CCRC rejected his appeal so why would they do that if he had proof that Sheila was alive in the kitchen and then went upstairs and killed herself on the bed?

-------------------------

Hang on a minute, CCRC have not fully rejected his application - its only a provisional decision...

Well if there was evidence that the police ignored an injured person and then allowed her to shoot herself, and evidence that the police covered that up, I think an appeal would have been granted straightaway, don't you?

[Hartley]

What about the COLP enquiry in 1991? Did they not notice that that EP killed Sheila? Or was that evidence not available then?

[Kaldin]

I object to being told I'm muddying the waters. The issue of Sheila is one thing but I've also been told that June was moved, that June was on her back, that the rug from her side of the bed was moved for no apparent reason, and that she was propped up against the door by the police!

Every time someone tries to discuss thing logically, in comes Mike with yet more unsubstantiated theories and he accuses others of muddying the waters! 

[TheBrilliantMistake]

They were all killed by Martians...

Scully and Mulder know about this, and told me so, but it's very hush hush. I'd like to show you the images, but I can't.
Last time I tried, the FBI manipulated my site and replaced the evidence with photos of Venusians, which of course everybody knows is totally unbelievable. That was their attempt to discredit me.

[mike tesko]

Does anyone know anything more about the training exercise?  What would this have entailed, exactly?  This thread seems a good place to ask, since it appears that the movement of Sheila's body must have taken place around that time (if we accept the information JB's solicitor obtained from his meeting with Dr Craig and his wife).  I shouldn't think it's worth starting a new thread.  I just wondered whether there is anyone reading this who actually knows from their own experience about the sort of training exercise which apparently took place at WHF.

None took place, it's a total myth.

I'm waiting for somebody to come forward with ONE other documented case of a murder where some reenactment took place with the bodies still in situ.

It beggars belief.

A week later? retracing footsteps? yes, perfectly believable.

-----------------------

It did take place, and you are misleading anyone and everyone by suggesting that such an exercise did not take place - police records now in the possession of Jeremy confirm that such an exercise did take place...

When the truth comes out, you will eat your words regarding this matter, and your comments...

Well without that evidence, I don't blame people for thinking it didn't happen. It sounds extremely unlikely to me as well.

------------------------

You are asking me to post the evidence that proves that such an exercise did take place, against Jeremy's instructions. I have assured him that I will leave that part of his case to him, and his legal team, but I would direct you to information that was published in a national newspaper, where Jeremy accuses Essex police of using the bodies of his family, as "props", during a training exercise, when these events did take place, between (a) 9am and 9:22am, and (b) between 10:35am and 11:35am...

Why would Jeremy be informing the press that such an exercise did take place, if it had not?

Think about it, Do you not think that Jeremy would have some proof about this, before he informed the press?

Why would Jeremy put himself in such a position, without any evidence in his opossesion to back up what he is claiming?

Well look, the CCRC rejected his appeal so why would they do that if he had proof that Sheila was alive in the kitchen and then went upstairs and killed herself on the bed?

---------------------------

Evidence exists to indicate that the police found two bodies downstairs, one "a murder" and the other "a suicide", by 7:45am, one a dead male, the other a dead female, by 7:37am, - Jeremy did not invent this evidence, it exists in the form of police radio message log contents, and there is external evidence to back up and substantiate such claims - the fact that such "EVIDENCE" exists, is problematic to the prosecutions claim, that Sheila's body was found upstairs on the bedroom floor...

You do not need to lecture me about such claims as being "speculative", or that it is just "a theory", or that it is "not evidence" - the fact is, that it is "evidence", and it does have some bearing on where Sheila was found, and the circumstances of how she ended up dead in the main bedroom. Any interpretation of that evidence is a matter of opinion, but nevertheless, such material is evidence which could support the case for Sheila having originally been found downstairs in the region of the kitchen, and that her body was found on the bed at a later stage, and moved to the floor by the police...

You do not decide what is evidence, or what is not evidence - if some information exists, in either a witness statement, or some police record, or crime scene photograph, or whatever, it is evidence which falls to be considered by the court, dealing with the matter...

Arguments in favour, or against that evidence, can only be put and considered by the court dealing with the matter...

So, on that basis, I would kindly invite you to stop suggesting that no such evidence exists to support the points I am drawing to everyones attention...

Sit back, and use the grey matter between your lug-holes, before you start making comments that do not stand up to any sort of scrutiny...

[Kaldin]

Does anyone know anything more about the training exercise?  What would this have entailed, exactly?  This thread seems a good place to ask, since it appears that the movement of Sheila's body must have taken place around that time (if we accept the information JB's solicitor obtained from his meeting with Dr Craig and his wife).  I shouldn't think it's worth starting a new thread.  I just wondered whether there is anyone reading this who actually knows from their own experience about the sort of training exercise which apparently took place at WHF.

None took place, it's a total myth.

I'm waiting for somebody to come forward with ONE other documented case of a murder where some reenactment took place with the bodies still in situ.

It beggars belief.

A week later? retracing footsteps? yes, perfectly believable.

-----------------------

It did take place, and you are misleading anyone and everyone by suggesting that such an exercise did not take place - police records now in the possession of Jeremy confirm that such an exercise did take place...

When the truth comes out, you will eat your words regarding this matter, and your comments...

Well without that evidence, I don't blame people for thinking it didn't happen. It sounds extremely unlikely to me as well.

------------------------

You are asking me to post the evidence that proves that such an exercise did take place, against Jeremy's instructions. I have assured him that I will leave that part of his case to him, and his legal team, but I would direct you to information that was published in a national newspaper, where Jeremy accuses Essex police of using the bodies of his family, as "props", during a training exercise, when these events did take place, between (a) 9am and 9:22am, and (b) between 10:35am and 11:35am...

Why would Jeremy be informing the press that such an exercise did take place, if it had not?

Think about it, Do you not think that Jeremy would have some proof about this, before he informed the press?

Why would Jeremy put himself in such a position, without any evidence in his opossesion to back up what he is claiming?

Well look, the CCRC rejected his appeal so why would they do that if he had proof that Sheila was alive in the kitchen and then went upstairs and killed herself on the bed?

---------------------------

Evidence exists to indicate that the police found two bodies downstairs, one "a murder" and the other "a suicide", by 7:45am, one a dead male, the other a dead female, by 7:37am, - Jeremy did not invent this evidence, it exists in the form of police radio message log contents, and there is external evidence to back up and substantiate such claims - the fact that such "EVIDENCE" exists, is problematic to the prosecutions claim, that Sheila's body was found upstairs on the bedroom floor...

You do not need to lecture me about such claims as being "speculative", or that it is just "a theory", or that it is "not evidence" - the fact is, that it is "evidence", and it does have some bearing on where Sheila was found, and the circumstances of how she ended up dead in the main bedroom. Any interpretation of that evidence is a matter of opinion, but nevertheless, such material is evidence which could support the case for Sheila having originally been found downstairs in the region of the kitchen, and that her body was found on the bed at a later stage, and moved to the floor by the police...

You do not decide what is evidence, or what is not evidence - if some information exists, in either a witness statement, or some police record, or crime scene photograph, or whatever, it is evidence which falls to be considered by the court, dealing with the matter...

Arguments in favour, or against that evidence, can only be put and considered by the court dealing with the matter...

So, on that basis, I would kindly invite you to stop suggesting that no such evidence exists to support the points I am drawing to everyones attention...

Sit back, and use the grey matter between your lug-holes, before you start making comments that do not stand up to any sort of scrutiny...

Personal insults now?

I suggest you start paying attention to what others are saying on here instead of trying to lecture others about unsubstantiated claims.

[mike tesko]

I object to being told I'm muddying the waters. The issue of Sheila is one thing but I've also been told that June was moved, that June was on her back, that the rug from her side of the bed was moved for no apparent reason, and that she was propped up against the door by the police!

Every time someone tries to discuss thing logically, in comes Mike with yet more unsubstantiated theories and he accuses others of muddying the waters! 

--------------------

Evidence exists to back up everything that I have been saying - but there is no evidence to back up your counter arguments...

Once again, you adopt the  "must try to ridicule Mike", approach -  which indicates that you do not have a constructive reply or answer to thew points being raised. Its a sad state of affairs when the opposition have to adopt such an approach...

[mike tesko]

Does anyone know anything more about the training exercise?  What would this have entailed, exactly?  This thread seems a good place to ask, since it appears that the movement of Sheila's body must have taken place around that time (if we accept the information JB's solicitor obtained from his meeting with Dr Craig and his wife).  I shouldn't think it's worth starting a new thread.  I just wondered whether there is anyone reading this who actually knows from their own experience about the sort of training exercise which apparently took place at WHF.

None took place, it's a total myth.

I'm waiting for somebody to come forward with ONE other documented case of a murder where some reenactment took place with the bodies still in situ.

It beggars belief.

A week later? retracing footsteps? yes, perfectly believable.

-----------------------

It did take place, and you are misleading anyone and everyone by suggesting that such an exercise did not take place - police records now in the possession of Jeremy confirm that such an exercise did take place...

When the truth comes out, you will eat your words regarding this matter, and your comments...

Well without that evidence, I don't blame people for thinking it didn't happen. It sounds extremely unlikely to me as well.

------------------------

You are asking me to post the evidence that proves that such an exercise did take place, against Jeremy's instructions. I have assured him that I will leave that part of his case to him, and his legal team, but I would direct you to information that was published in a national newspaper, where Jeremy accuses Essex police of using the bodies of his family, as "props", during a training exercise, when these events did take place, between (a) 9am and 9:22am, and (b) between 10:35am and 11:35am...

Why would Jeremy be informing the press that such an exercise did take place, if it had not?

Think about it, Do you not think that Jeremy would have some proof about this, before he informed the press?

Why would Jeremy put himself in such a position, without any evidence in his opossesion to back up what he is claiming?

Well look, the CCRC rejected his appeal so why would they do that if he had proof that Sheila was alive in the kitchen and then went upstairs and killed herself on the bed?

---------------------------

Evidence exists to indicate that the police found two bodies downstairs, one "a murder" and the other "a suicide", by 7:45am, one a dead male, the other a dead female, by 7:37am, - Jeremy did not invent this evidence, it exists in the form of police radio message log contents, and there is external evidence to back up and substantiate such claims - the fact that such "EVIDENCE" exists, is problematic to the prosecutions claim, that Sheila's body was found upstairs on the bedroom floor...

You do not need to lecture me about such claims as being "speculative", or that it is just "a theory", or that it is "not evidence" - the fact is, that it is "evidence", and it does have some bearing on where Sheila was found, and the circumstances of how she ended up dead in the main bedroom. Any interpretation of that evidence is a matter of opinion, but nevertheless, such material is evidence which could support the case for Sheila having originally been found downstairs in the region of the kitchen, and that her body was found on the bed at a later stage, and moved to the floor by the police...

You do not decide what is evidence, or what is not evidence - if some information exists, in either a witness statement, or some police record, or crime scene photograph, or whatever, it is evidence which falls to be considered by the court, dealing with the matter...

Arguments in favour, or against that evidence, can only be put and considered by the court dealing with the matter...

So, on that basis, I would kindly invite you to stop suggesting that no such evidence exists to support the points I am drawing to everyones attention...

Sit back, and use the grey matter between your lug-holes, before you start making comments that do not stand up to any sort of scrutiny...

Personal insults now?

I suggest you start paying attention to what others are saying on here instead of trying to lecture others about unsubstantiated claims.

---------------------------

My claims have got evidence to back them up - you don't appear to have any...

Your attempts at trying to ridicule anything that is being said, is a joke, and disrespectful...

If anyone was starting to get personal, it was you - and you don't like it when anyone starts to give it back - tough..

[Hartley]

Its a sad state of affairs when the opposition have to adopt such an approach...

What!!!! Opposition, we're just a few members of the public looking at things for ourselves, we're not the prosecution.

That has has to be the most ridiculous statement you have posted on here.

....in my opinion.

[mike tesko]

They were all killed by Martians...

Scully and Mulder know about this, and told me so, but it's very hush hush. I'd like to show you the images, but I can't.
Last time I tried, the FBI manipulated my site and replaced the evidence with photos of Venusians, which of course everybody knows is totally unbelievable. That was their attempt to discredit me.

-----------------

Here is another example...