Photograph of Shiela on the bed

[Paul]

Why would they have put June on the floor in that particular position then?

-----------------------

They must have taken them both off the bed and put June up against the bedroom door, but her body slipped down into the position it ended up being photographed in, by PC Bird (SOC) at around 10 O'clock, and Sheila was put onto the floor - possibly so that they could check the bed for evidence...

Why would they put June up against the bedroom door? They would have had to have put her in a very awkward position for her to to have slipped down that way.

-----------------------

Look at the bedroom door, blood smears - she was propped up against that door and slipped down into her last resting position - the poor woman died a horrible painful death...

Does this post refer to June or Sheila?

If its June then can these things be clarified:

When the police arrive in the bedroom is June alive (just) and on the bed?
The police then pick her up off the bed and prop her up against the door to die a horrible painful death?

[mike tesko]

You can tell by looking at the above photograph that June Bamber appears to have been laid face down after she died, and that whoever placed her on the floor next to the door, set her down there on her back - you can see the white patches where the legs had been in contact with a surface, and tell by the way her legs have started to discolor...

[TheBrilliantMistake]

I cant see the footprints just what looks to be subtle swirls/nap of the carpet

[TheBrilliantMistake]

You can tell by looking at the above photograph that June Bamber appears to have been laid face down after she died, and that whoever placed her on the floor next to the door, set her down there on her back - you can see the white patches where the legs had been in contact with a surface, and tell by the way her legs have started to discolor...

The white patches are indicative of blood drain during livor motis when the blood is fluid still but will start to settle according to gravity (more or less), youu can see the purple accumulation of blood in her calf....
however, blood will still flow and settle if moved during this stage (couple of hours) after that, the blood no longer flows with regard to position.

Basically you can't see anything from this pic, BUT it does support her being on her back. The white marks certainly don't suggest she's been on her front (IF she was on her front for over 2 hours after death)

[mike tesko]

You can tell by looking at the above photograph that June Bamber appears to have been laid face down after she died, and that whoever placed her on the floor next to the door, set her down there on her back - you can see the white patches where the legs had been in contact with a surface, and tell by the way her legs have started to discolor...

The white patches are indicative of blood drain during livor motis when the blood is fluid still but will start to settle according to gravity (more or less), youu can see the purple accumulation of blood in her calf....
however, blood will still flow and settle if moved during this stage (couple of hours) after that, the blood no longer flows with regard to position.

Basically you can't see anything from this pic, BUT it does support her being on her back. The white marks certainly don't suggest she's been on her front (IF she was on her front for over 2 hours after death)

-----------------------------------

I think the opposite - I think the white areas show where the body was in contact with something, and that she was laid face down somewhere, before being moved...

[Kaldin]

I think Mike is referring to the fact that livor mortis doesn't happen in tissue which is contact with the ground or bed or whatever because of compression. That photo does not indicate she was lying on her front though. You can't see the area of her legs which are in contact with the ground.

[karma]

I think it is impossible to say for definate what position June was in from this picture we would have to see a picture of the back of her legs. As far as i understand livor presentation, blood pools at the lowest point first, but not in the places that are in contact with a surface (correct me if i'm wrong). With that in mind i would say it looks like June was on her back as the livor marks would be further to the front of her legs if she was on her front.

[karma]

Sorry kaldin i didn't see your post,  i have so many diferent topics opened in tabs on my browser! :D

[Kaldin]

Sorry kaldin i didn't see your post,  i have so many diferent topics opened in tabs on my browser! :D

No problem. Anyway, as you can see, I agree with you. 

[mike tesko]

I think Mike is referring to the fact that livor mortis doesn't happen in tissue which is contact with the ground or bed or whatever because of compression. That photo does not indicate she was lying on her front though. You can't see the area of her legs which are in contact with the ground.

... There is a marked absence of livor mortis at the top part of both legs, which gives a good indication that June was iaid differently to that shown...

[Kaldin]

I think Mike is referring to the fact that livor mortis doesn't happen in tissue which is contact with the ground or bed or whatever because of compression. That photo does not indicate she was lying on her front though. You can't see the area of her legs which are in contact with the ground.

... There is a marked absence of livor mortis at the top part of both legs, which gives a good indication that June was iaid differently to that shown...

There wouldn't be livor mortis on the top part of her legs because the blood sinks to the lowest point. She was on her back so therefore there was no livor mortis on the top of her legs.

[mike tesko]

I think Mike is referring to the fact that livor mortis doesn't happen in tissue which is contact with the ground or bed or whatever because of compression. That photo does not indicate she was lying on her front though. You can't see the area of her legs which are in contact with the ground.

... There is a marked absence of livor mortis at the top part of both legs, which gives a good indication that June was iaid differently to that shown...

There wouldn't be livor mortis on the top part of her legs because the blood sinks to the lowest point. She was on her back so therefore there was no livor mortis on the top of her legs.

... I think the opposite - I think she could have been laid face down on top of the ruffled quilt, and that the reason for the white patches on the upper part of her legs, as shown in the image, is because those parts of her legs were in contact with the quilt and because of compression asserting its influence. Although you cannot see the back of her legs in this picture, it is possible that some form of livor mortis existed there, to one extent or another...

[Kaldin]

I think Mike is referring to the fact that livor mortis doesn't happen in tissue which is contact with the ground or bed or whatever because of compression. That photo does not indicate she was lying on her front though. You can't see the area of her legs which are in contact with the ground.

... There is a marked absence of livor mortis at the top part of both legs, which gives a good indication that June was iaid differently to that shown...

There wouldn't be livor mortis on the top part of her legs because the blood sinks to the lowest point. She was on her back so therefore there was no livor mortis on the top of her legs.

... I think the opposite - I think she could have been laid face down on top of the ruffled quilt, and that the reason for the white patches on the upper part of her legs, as shown in the image, is because those parts of her legs were in contact with the quilt and because of compression asserting its influence. Although you cannot see the back of her legs in this picture, it is possible that some form of livor mortis existed there, to one extent or another...

No ..... I don't agree with that at all. That's pure speculation and not even very scientific.

[mike tesko]

I think Mike is referring to the fact that livor mortis doesn't happen in tissue which is contact with the ground or bed or whatever because of compression. That photo does not indicate she was lying on her front though. You can't see the area of her legs which are in contact with the ground.

... There is a marked absence of livor mortis at the top part of both legs, which gives a good indication that June was iaid differently to that shown...

There wouldn't be livor mortis on the top part of her legs because the blood sinks to the lowest point. She was on her back so therefore there was no livor mortis on the top of her legs.

... I think the opposite - I think she could have been laid face down on top of the ruffled quilt, and that the reason for the white patches on the upper part of her legs, as shown in the image, is because those parts of her legs were in contact with the quilt and because of compression asserting its influence. Although you cannot see the back of her legs in this picture, it is possible that some form of livor mortis existed there, to one extent or another...

No ..... I don't agree with that at all. That's pure speculation and not even very scientific.

... I am not speculating, you can see the white patches on the top part of her legs, which is consistant with my explanation - but you cannot see the back part of her legs, so if anyone is speculating, it is you. I think there is a good chance that June was on the bed, in keeping with what DC Clark told Ann Eaton...

[chelmsey]

Going back to the comment Mike made about June could have walked around the room and she was maybe the figure that the 2 police officers and JB thought that they saw in the window.Im a bit confused about this.Did the main bedroom at the front of the house also have a rear window within the same room? Because it has been stated that the room as to which they were referring to as having maybe seen someone moving around in was actually the top right hand window at the rear of the house!