June and Ralph, killed first - gun, then empty of bullets / rounds...

[mike tesko]

The idea that we think that the children must have been shot first is an example of guilter propaganda. They prefer that interpretation because it gives rise to the problem of Sheila needing to reload before Nevill and June had been incapacitated.

The intention is to make the defence’s position appear implausible by adjusting the narrative to serve the prosecution. Prosecuting lawyers use that technique almost habitually. At Bambers trial they did it a lot and got away with it.

Similarly, the guilters say that it’s ridiculous that Nevill would have phoned Jeremy, because the injury to his jaw would have made it impossible for him to speak. Of  course, if he did phone, it would have been before anybody had been shot.

Again, the fact that there was no blood on the phone is supposed to prove that Nevill never did make a call.

Yet they say that Nevill would have been far too strong for Sheila to overpower, because he was so much bigger and because he was a farmer.

So, it would appear that, although Nevill would have been too badly injured even to have made a phone call, he nevertheless would  have found it easy to have taken the gun from Sheila.

I agree that Nevill and June would have been shot first, while the children were still sleeping. This not only makes sense from the point of view of an assailant that wasn’t completely stupid, but also from the nature of the wounds inflicted. The controlled shots to the head would have occurred last, where all the victims are concerned. It’s possible that Sheila returned to Nevill and June to fire more shots after she had killed the boys. The most accurate shots must have occurred last.

You are right, Sheila would have had all the time in the world to reload.

Martin, I think we are both right about this...

[mike tesko]

With both parents shot and killed by all the bullets being capable of being loaded into the anshulz rifle, Sheila did not have to rush about reloading the gun, because her main adversaries (mum and dad) were already dead, providing no risk to her of being attacked by them, all that was left by that stage, were three human hearts beating, Sheila's, and the two children...

Ralph and June are dead (at this stage), 11 rounds have been discharged, the weapon is empty, Neither Sheila herself, or the two children had yet been shot or wounded...

Sheila had all the time in the world to reload, if she needed too, or use a separate gun that had, or needed to be reloaded, with 14 additional bullets...

This is where the 14 bullet cases (MDF/100), which are currently held in storage at Huntingdon Lab', came into play...

[mike tesko]

With both parents shot and killed by all the bullets being capable of being loaded into the anshulz rifle, Sheila did not have to rush about reloading the gun, because her main adversaries (mum and dad) were already dead, providing no risk to her of being attacked by them, all that was left by that stage, were three human hearts beating, Sheila's, and the two children...

Ralph and June are dead (at this stage), 11 rounds have been discharged, the weapon is empty, Neither Sheila herself, or the two children had yet been shot or wounded...

Sheila had all the time in the world to reload, if she needed too, or use a separate gun that had, or needed to be reloaded, with 14 additional bullets...

This is where the 14 bullet cases (MDF/100), which are currently held in storage at Huntingdon Lab', came into play...

With both parents killed, and 11 rounds from the first full load of the gun discharged, the shooter would be required to reload the same gun (that fired the next 14 shots), hence the reason why these 14 bullet cases are being retained at the lab'...

[mike tesko]

Neither the police, nor the ballistic expert, Malcolm Fletcher, have ever given an explanation for why these 14 bullet cases (MDF/100) exist, and are still being kept at the lab', 17 years after the batch of crime scene ammunition was supposedly destroyed (1996) by order of DI SOAMES, special branch...

[mike tesko]

Ballistic expert, Renshaw, informed us at the beginning of 2004, that these 14 bullet cases (MDF/100) were still in existence at the lab', and that they could be individually checked to see if any of them had got evidence of expansion caused by the silencer / sound moderator being fitted to the guns barrel when they were discharged from the weapon...

[mike tesko]

Ballistic expert, Renshaw, informed us at the beginning of 2004, that these 14 bullet cases (MDF/100) were still in existence at the lab', and that they could be individually checked to see if any of them had got evidence of expansion caused by the silencer / sound moderator being fitted to the guns barrel when they were discharged from the weapon...

It remains to be seen whether or not, these (MDF/100) 14 bullet cases, had been loaded into the magazine of the anshulz rifle at any stage, detonated and ejected, or if any of them, or all of them have been fingerprinted by super glue technique...

[mike tesko]

There are a number of possibilities to consider, when looking at the question of these / those (MDF/100) 14 bullet cases still held at the lab':-

(1) - were these fired during the killing of the two children, and the wounding of Sheila?

(2) - which gun were they loaded into and fired / ejected from?

(3) - do any have white residue on them, from exposure to super glue treatment carried out on 23rd August 1985?

[mike tesko]

There are a number of possibilities to consider, when looking at the question of these / those (MDF/100) 14 bullet cases still held at the lab':-

(1) - were these fired during the killing of the two children, and the wounding of Sheila?

(2) - which gun were they loaded into and fired / ejected from?

(3) - do any have white residue on them, from exposure to super glue treatment carried out on 23rd August 1985?

Renshaw accepted for the possibility that with a silencer / sound moderator fitted to the barrel of the .22 semi-automatic rifle at the time of the shootings, there would be microscopic expansion or bulging at the base of ejected cartridge cases, capable of being measured, which would give a clear indication as to whether or not, a silencer was fitted to the barrel of the gun when shots are fired through it? This is very interesting, since, this kind of microscopic bulging is only applicable when using semi-automatic weapons fitted with silencers / sound moderators...

Malcolm Fletcher, states that despite extensive tests, carried out by him on the batch of crime scene ammunition, that he was unable to tell whether or not any of the 25 shots had been fired through a silencer / sound moderator, yet Renshaw stated that it was / is possible to distinguish bullet cases loaded into a gun and fired / ejected which is fitted with a silencer, as opposed to similar bullets being fired through a gun, minus a silencer...

[mike tesko]

Based on what Fletcher has said, concerning it not being possible for him to tell whether or not any of the 25 rounds fired during the shootings had been fired through a silencer, and the distinct possibility that Sheila and the two children, were not shot and killed by bullets from the original first full load of the gun, it must follow that if any of the last 14 rounds used to shoot Sheila and the children, had been loaded into the magazine of the semi-automatic rifle, fired and ejected, according to Renshaw it would have been possible to establish this...

So, we have Fletcher saying that he could not say if any of the 25 rounds had been fired through a silencer, and another expert Renshaw saying that if any had been fired through a silencer it was possible to determine this / that...

[mike tesko]

Let's look at this from another angle, if there is no evidence that any of the first 11 rounds used to kill both parents had been fired through the anshulz rifle with a silencer fitted, which equates to being as good as saying that no silencer was fitted to the barrel of the gun which was used to kill both parents, then why would any would be killer, or Sheila for that matter, proceed to put a silencer onto the guns barrel for the purpose of shooting the two sleeping children, and Sheila?

[EnquiringMind]

Can I just ask if the twins had toxicology testing done during the autopsies?

I agree with the thought that June & Nevill were killed first but there is the question on the twins sleeping through what must surely have been a lot of noise.

Did Sheila have any of her medication in the farmhouse?

[Patti]

Can I just ask if the twins had toxicology testing done during the autopsies?

I agree with the thought that June & Nevill were killed first but there is the question on the twins sleeping through what must surely have been a lot of noise.

Did Sheila have any of her medication in the farmhouse?

You might wish to read this report. 
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,1205.0.html

[Alias]

How was it possible for any would be killer, to control three adults (Ralph, June and Sheila) before the need for the shooter to reload the same gun with additional ammunition, after firing the first 11 rounds?

That´s what I keep saying, I don´t think it would have been possible, and furthermore, how could Jeremy have expected to be able to control three adults? Two, OK, three, no way. Something is missing from the equation.

[mike tesko]

That´s what I keep saying, I don´t think it would have been possible, and furthermore, how could Jeremy have expected to be able to control three adults? Two, OK, three, no way. Something is missing from the equation.

Hi Alias,

If there was only one weapon used in the shootings, and the fact that police have lied about blood on the soles of her feet, I think it points to Sheila being the shooter of her parents, because as more and more people are coming to realize or accept, who was controlling Sheila whilst all of this was going on? If there had been a different shooter, other than Sheila, he would have had to reload the gun, giving Sheila an opportunity to alert the police, or call an ambulance, or to literally escape to save her own life...

Any other would be shooter, would have had to attack Sheila to prevent her doing any of the aforementioned, but as we all know, Sheila had no injuries at all anywhere on her body, so nobody attacked her, no-one did anything at all to her to make her inactive, which in all the circumstances of the case, must point to Sheila being the shooter, she had all the time in the world to reload, all the time in the world to shoot her sleeping kids, and for her to confront the police downstairs in the kitchen...

[Alias]

Hi Alias,

If there was only one weapon used in the shootings, and the fact that police have lied about blood on the soles of her feet, I think it points to Sheila being the shooter of her parents, because as more and more people are coming to realize or accept, who was controlling Sheila whilst all of this was going on? If there had been a different shooter, other than Sheila, he would have had to reload the gun, giving Sheila an opportunity to alert the police, or call an ambulance, or to literally escape to save her own life...

Any other would be shooter, would have had to attack Sheila to prevent her doing any of the aforementioned, but as we all know, Sheila had no injuries at all anywhere on her body, so nobody attacked her, no-one did anything at all to her to make her inactive, which in all the circumstances of the case, must point to Sheila being the shooter, she had all the time in the world to reload, all the time in the world to shoot her sleeping kids, and for her to confront the police downstairs in the kitchen...

[/b]

Couldn´t agree more, but not sure about this point, but that´s just me!