Question Re 'Firearms Team Are In Conversation'

[No-Bits]

I doubt that is correct. According to Adam's who was in charge he sent for more men due to the size of the farm house.

Ralf appears to suggest that it is not the size of the farmhouse, it is simply the risk to the officers taking part in the raid, due to the belief that there was an arsenal of loaded weapons available. Had the police been given the correct information by JB, then they may have felt it an acceptable risk to enter the property without a back up team waiting outside. Their decision to delay entering the house was based on the false information received from JB. He knew the Anshutz wasn't loaded, and at best was unaware about the other weapons, so why inform the police that there was an arsenal of loaded weapons?

Good for Ralf for considering these details.

[Patti]

Ralf appears to suggest that it is not the size of the farmhouse, it is simply the risk to the officers taking part in the raid, due to the belief that there was as arsenal of loaded weapons available. Had the police been given the correct information by JB, then they may have felt it an acceptable risk to enter the property without a back up team waiting outside. Their decision to delay entering the house was based on the false information received from JB. He knew the Anshutz wasn't loaded, and at best was unaware about the other weapons, so why inform the police that there was an arsenal of loaded weapons?

Good for Ralf for considering these details.

Of course Adam's had to consider his own men.  Whether Jeremy told them that all the guns were loaded is debatable, but Adam's himself clearly states that after considering the size of the farm, he decided to request more man power.  It would have been ludicrous for him not to, considering the situation after evaluation.  Loaded weapons or not, the mere fact there was weapons in the house made Adam's cautious.

Where is the proof that Jeremy told them the weapons were loaded?   

[guest7363]

It really doesn't matter who said what to who, the major flaw in this plan would be police entering the farmhouse on arrival and Jeremy Bamber could NOT have know that they wouldn't enter immediately (or shortly thereafter) - at this point, he would have had no control!

I personally think it does matter who said what to who, if your a commading officer you have to gather as much credible evidence before risking the lifes of your men. For me this is the most important part of the case the delaying tactics used to distance yourself as far as possible from the crime? As much as we all know it was a poor investigation i dont think this part of the operation fell into that catogary.

[No-Bits]

Of course Adam's had to consider his own men.  Whether Jeremy told them that all the guns were loaded is debatable, but Adam's himself clearly states that after considering the size of the farm, he decided to request more man power.  It would have been ludicrous for him not to, considering the situation after evaluation.  Loaded weapons or not, the mere fact there was weapons in the house made Adam's cautious.

Where is the proof that Jeremy told them the weapons were loaded?   

Ralf appears to be suggesting that it was the risk from loaded firearms and therefore the risk to police officers that was the main reason the the delay.

I think I have to agree with Ralf that it's worrying that JB provided the police with such false information regarding loaded firearms. It doesn't sit well with us why JB would do that. 

[guest7363]

Of course Adam's had to consider his own men.  Whether Jeremy told them that all the guns were loaded is debatable, but Adam's himself clearly states that after considering the size of the farm, he decided to request more man power.  It would have been ludicrous for him not to, considering the situation after evaluation.  Loaded weapons or not, the mere fact there was weapons in the house made Adam's cautious.

Where is the proof that Jeremy told them the weapons were loaded?   

Hi Patti if you have a look at pc Adams statement sheet 2 he tells you on that, about his father kept several loaded about the house?  This being prob why they sent for back up?

[Patti]

Hi Patti if you have a look at pc Adams statement sheet 2 he tells you on that, about his father kept several loaded about the house?  This being prob why they sent for back up?

Hi Ralf

I can't find where he said that. Douglas John Adams was in charge and he clearly says he sent for more men due to the size of the farm house.  Here is his statement.  Hope you are prepared for the snow...lol 
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,188.msg509.html#msg509

[killingeve]

Ralf appears to be suggesting that it was the risk from loaded firearms and therefore the risk to police officers that was the main reason the the delay.

I think I have to agree with Ralf that it's worrying that JB provided the police with such false information regarding loaded firearms. It doesn't sit well with us why JB would do that. 

Hi No-Bits

I thought JB told EP about the gun he used the previous eve and gave a list of all guns and ammo as referred to in AE's wit stat.

http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,4226.msg172924.html#msg172924

[guest7363]

Hi Ralf

I can't find where he said that. Douglas John Adams was in charge and he clearly says he sent for more men due to the size of the farm house.  Here is his statement.  Hope you are prepared for the snow...lol 
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,188.msg509.html#msg509

Patti if you go into raid team statements have a look at adams 2nd page.

[guest7363]

Hi Ralf

I can't find where he said that. Douglas John Adams was in charge and he clearly says he sent for more men due to the size of the farm house.  Here is his statement.  Hope you are prepared for the snow...lol 
http://jeremybamberforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,188.msg509.html#msg509

Snow ha ha just been to mcarthy glenn for my snow trousers lol your a mind reader x

[Patti]

Patti if you go into raid team statements have a look at adams 2nd page.

I will Ralf if you read the one I sent you first lolol 

[No-Bits]

To go further, if it was usual and acceptable for JB to go in to the gun cupboard, take out and load the Anshutz rifle, before heading out to hunt rabbits, then I have a hard time believing that he would be unaware of the loaded/unloaded status of other weapons. If for his own safety as much as anything else. He also displays a certain amount of caution by removing the magazine and bullet from the breach of the Anshutz.

So for what reason did he tell the police that there was an arsenal of loaded weapons in the house, accessible and ready for use by his sister? 

[No-Bits]

Patti if you go into raid team statements have a look at adams 2nd page.

[Patti]

Well I have just read PC Adam's statement in the raid team and find that its contradictory for he does say the reason he sends for more men is due to the size of the farm house and not because Jeremy had told him guns were loaded.   

[Patti]

So why did he say in his September statement that the reason he sent for more men was because of the size of the farm house? Why didn't he say " due to what Jeremy had told me about the guns being loaded I decided to ask for more men" ?   

[No-Bits]

Well I have just read PC Adam's statement in the raid team and find that its contradictory for he does say the reason he sends for more men is due to the size of the farm house and not because Jeremy had told him guns were loaded.   

Why has Jeremy told the police that HE left a loaded rifle out?

When later, he tells them that he didn't leave a loaded rifle out at all.

Why did Jeremy tell the police that there were a number of loaded firearms in the house?

Yet after the police had taken control of the house, they found that there wasn't a single loaded firearm in the house.