Pamelas 10pm phonecall

[maggie]

I thought Jeremy went out to shoot rabbits, so could have had no knowlege if Sheila had argued with her parents or not.
When he returned to the farm he placed the rifle in the settle, and went home to Goldhanger.. He would havenot known if she was agitated.
On the other hand Colin had allegledy said " she has done it then" after being contacted by the police.
Interestingly he did not believe it was Jeremy at first.
If it was Jeremy the mistake he made was claiming a telephone call from his father. It would have been better to discover the bodies" the next morning.
To be clear I do not believe Mugford about the "tonights the night" phone call, and have always been of the opinion that she should have been beside him in the dock. She was one of the first supergrasses to escape prosecution for turning states evidence.
I don't post much now as we have chewed this cud before, but remain convinced that their is a masonic connection, guilty, or not. Misguided or not Robert was to the fore. I think he convinced himself that Jeremy did it. It was nothing to do with the money, just his belief.

Hi Buddy
Jeremy said Sheila was not involved in the conversation as he stood by the sink eating something then loading the gun.  He said she wasn't speaking and hardly paying attention which I think is withdrawn not agitated.  Don't think he was outside many minutes and from what he said was only half paying attention himself as not that interesting for a 24 yeard old.  So his statement that she was NOT agitated surely was contrary as to what you may have expected from Jeremy if he was setting the scene with Sheila as the murderer?  I would think.

[buddy]

I tend to agree that if Jeremy was setting the scene for the slaughter of his family.
I did find it interesting that an earlier post that Sheila joined her mother in bed that night because she may have been unsettled, and Ralph retired to Sheila's bed. When the shooting started he ran downstairs hence the bullet case on the stairs.. I still find it difficult that one shooter was involved, with two adults upstairs, and one down. The degree of brutallity also troubles me if the intention was just to kill his family. There was no need for this brutality, and added to the time it would take.
Hope this makes sense. Regards.

[lookout]

I tend to agree that Jeremy was setting the scene for the slaughter of his family.
I did find it interesting that an earlier post that Sheila joined her mother in bed that night because she may have been unsettled, and Ralph retired to Sheila's bed. When the shooting started he ran downstairs hence the bullet case on the stairs.. I still find it difficult that one shooter was involved, with two adults upstairs, and one down. The degree of brutallity also troubles me if the intention was just to kill his family. There was no need for this brutality, and added to the time it would take.
Hope this makes sense. Regards.

By all accounts,Sheilas' bed hadn't been slept in,with no visible disturbance of bedclothes having been turned back ready to step into. Only the top of the made bed did it show an impression of someone having just lain on top.

[Jane]

I tend to agree that Jeremy was setting the scene for the slaughter of his family.
I did find it interesting that an earlier post that Sheila joined her mother in bed that night because she may have been unsettled, and Ralph retired to Sheila's bed. When the shooting started he ran downstairs hence the bullet case on the stairs.. I still find it difficult that one shooter was involved, with two adults upstairs, and one down. The degree of brutallity also troubles me if the intention was just to kill his family. There was no need for this brutality, and added to the time it would take.
Hope this makes sense. Regards.

Buddy, Hi. I suggested some time ago the possibility that Sheila had been in, or on the bed with June. That maybe June had read some Bible passages to her, as she may have done when Sheila was a child, as a means of calming her.

[buddy]

By all accounts,Sheilas' bed hadn't been slept in,with no visible disturbance of bedclothes having been turned back ready to step into. Only the top of the made bed did it show an impression of someone having just lain on top.

Yes Lookout it does appear that way. That is why I am suggesting that it was not Sheila that retired to that bedroom. The tampax on the bed suggest she had removed one from the box, and left the others insitu.. Of course this is only a thought, and may be wide of the mark.

[buddy]

Buddy, Hi. I suggested some time ago the possibility that Sheila had been in, or on the bed with June. That maybe June had read some Bible passages to her, as she may have done when Sheila was a child, as a means of calming her.

I agree April.
That was the reason that ONE of the bibles was found next to Sheila's body, as we know that poor June owned several bibles.
I think that at this stage of Sheila's life she was so confused with all the religious stuff from June that she started to go along with June's thinking, as her life at the time was a mess.
Sheila had lost her husband, and children, and probably the will to live.
It's so hard now to discuss this seriously, as it all ends in silly banter on threads that need to be discussed.
It is disheartening when good topics denegrate to talking nonsense. There are threads off topic where this can be done.
I have been reading the topics I have missed. Guess what, I hav'nt missed them at all.
Some brilliant posters have abstained because of this. We need to stay at serious posts only. There are places you can go for off topic discussion.
Moan over. :D

[lookout]

Yes Lookout it does appear that way. That is why I am suggesting that it was not Sheila that retired to that bedroom. The tampax on the bed suggest she had removed one from the box, and left the others insitu.. Of course this is only a thought, and may be wide of the mark.

Buddy,,I did also read somewhere that Sheila was found shot on her fathers' side of the bed.

[buddy]

Buddy,,I did also read somewhere that Sheila was found shot on her fathers' side of the bed.

Lookout that has always been a bone of contention.
The report says that Sheila was on the far side of the bed {ralph's side}. It has been argued that this meant the the floor.
Given that Ann was told that both June, and Sheila were found on the bed I give some credence to this.
Even if Ann cannot recall Which officer told her it remains a fact she was told, and she passed this info onto Mugford, who agreed with Ann.
All of a sudden Sheila's body has been moved about, as testified by the photo's.
Bewes could not explain this, as witnessed in his youtube interveiw.
Bewes left the police, and took up taxi driving, until he secured a job as as a security consultant.
I will endeaver to find out where his expertise is needed, and report back ASAP.

[lookout]

Lookout that has always been a bone of contention.
The report says that Sheila was on the far side of the bed {ralph's side}. It has been argued that this meant the the floor.
Given that Ann was told that both June, and Sheila were found on the bed I give some credence to this.
Even if Ann cannot recall Which officer told her it remains a fact she was told, and she passed this info onto Mugford, who agreed with Ann.
All of a sudden Sheila's body has been moved about, as testified by the photo's.
Bewes could not explain this, as witnessed in his youtube interveiw.
Bewes left the police, and took up taxi driving, until he secured a job as as a security consultant.
I will endeaver to find out where his expertise is needed, and report back ASAP.

In order to understand fully,,if Sheila had been found on the floor,then it would have stated the floor and not her fathers' side of the bed,,,,which tells me me quite simply that she was actually on the bed and not the floor. Both entirely different places.
If I said I was going to sleep on my fathers' side of the bed,,I wouldn't mean on the floor,but the bed itself.

Not knocking taxi drivers,,but what a come-down eh ? So he left as opposed to being retired.? When was this,do you know.?

[buddy]

In order to understand fully,,if Sheila had been found on the floor,then it would have stated the floor and not her fathers' side of the bed,,,,which tells me me quite simply that she was actually on the bed and not the floor. Both entirely different places.
If I said I was going to sleep on my fathers' side of the bed,,I wouldn't mean on the floor,but the bed itself.

Not knocking taxi drivers,,but what a come-down eh ? So he left as opposed to being retired.? When was this,do you know.?

No lookout. the report said Sheila was on the far side of the bed. Not the bed itself. I understand this is a play on words.
Lookout, Sheila just went to bed. Whether she went to her parents bed is a matter of conjecter. I suspect she did at some time that night, and Ralph took to her bed, as he understood she was upset at the time, and tossed her tampax ect onto the spare bed..
This nonsense that Jeremy used a tampax as some sort of a pull through is daft. There was no need to clean the rifle, as this was supposed to be the murder weapon.
I honestly believe the rifle was cleaned down by the police, because so many of them had handled it.
It seems that Sheila was a loose cannon, and not the loving mother that people would have us believe.
She was a violent drug addict who was capable of anything.. That is why Colin left her in the first place, and why he got custody of the twins.
He knew she could be violent, and on occasions hurt the twins. One in particular.
She was not the loving mother that others would have us believe. She was a troubled person that needed to be in care.
Sheila was apparently involved in the drug trade, and owed some sum to her suppliers.
Is it impossible that someone wanted their money back. I think more attention should be paid to this.

[Steve_uk]

No lookout. the report said Sheila was on the far side of the bed. Not the bed itself. I understand this is a play on words.
Lookout, Sheila just went to bed. Whether she went to her parents bed is a matter of conjecter. I suspect she did at some time that night, and Ralph took to her bed, as he understood she was upset at the time, and tossed her tampax ect onto the spare bed..
This nonsense that Jeremy used a tampax as some sort of a pull through is daft. There was no need to clean the rifle, as this was supposed to be the murder weapon.
I honestly believe the rifle was cleaned down by the police, because so many of them had handled it.
It seems that Sheila was a loose cannon, and not the loving mother that people would have us believe.
She was a violent drug addict who was capable of anything.. That is why Colin left her in the first place, and why he got custody of the twins.
He knew she could be violent, and on occasions hurt the twins. One in particular.
She was not the loving mother that others would have us believe. She was a troubled person that needed to be in care.
Sheila was apparently involved in the drug trade, and owed some sum to her suppliers.
Is it impossible that someone wanted their money back. I think more attention should be paid to this.

Sheila may have been difficult to live with,needing constant emotional support and raising the topic of religion far more than the average person's liking,but I doubt she was involved in the drug trade. In Clare Powell's book we have an anecdote where drugs are left lying around near children at a friend's house and Sheila is horrified. The twins always came first in her life,it's just that her medication would make her drowsy and guilty of omission more than anything.

[mike tesko]

Sheila may have been difficult to live with,needing constant emotional support and raising the topic of religion far more than the average person's liking,but I doubt she was involved in the drug trade. In Clare Powell's book we have an anecdote where drugs are left lying around near children at a friend's house and Sheila is horrified. The twins always came first in her life,it's just that her medication would make her drowsy and guilty of omission more than anything.

Sho owed a drug dealor friend £50,000...

[Bridget]

Sho owed a drug dealor friend £50,000...

Says who?

[Lugg]

Says who?

Steve will know that one.

[mike tesko]

Says who?

Jeremy...