Neglect and the Effect on Developing Brains of Babies/Small Children

[lookout]

The Sheila Caffell attachment disorder thread has well and truly left the station with the usual suspects cock-a-hoop on board. I seem to recall Julie stating that Jeremy told her Sheila had "done some terrible things to him in the past",but of course Jeremy won't elucidate because these things don't exist,or don't you think Jeremy would have used them by now with his instinct for self-preservation? The problem is one thing would lead onto another,and Jeremy would finally have to divulge why he hated his parents so much as related to Goldsmiths student James Richards,and why he speculated on the Farm burning down at Christmas 1984.

Jeremy is a cheat and a liar:he burgled his own family's caravan park and lied about the motive for it,his lies continued that first morning at Goldhanger when for once in his life he was the centre of attention and beginning to enjoy it.He is suffering at the very least from narcissistic personality disorder,egged on from mail by the general public who have fallen for his hard-luck sob story,when he gambled to inherit a fortune he could hardly wait to receive and lost.

Sheila's schizophrenia to my mind was genetic:inherited from one side of the family and it will be interesting to see what Patti comes up with. One article I read today concerns warning signs of schizophrenia in infancy,and of the ten pointers which I list below only one seemingly applies to Sheila,that of low school attainment,which could also be put down to genetic factors and have no connection with mental illness.

10 Warning Signs of Childhood Schizophrenia

1) Late or unusual crawling or walking
2) Language delays
3) Abnormal motor behaviours(flapping arms,rocking)
4) Hypersensitivity to stimuli
5) Unfocused eye movements
6) Abnormal sleep habits
7) Inappropriate emotions
8)Social withdrawal
9) Poor school performance
10) Illogical thinking

I repeat:had Jeremy witnessed any of these childhood behaviours in his sister growing up he would have told his Defence team by now:it's clutching at straws to say the least,but why break the habit of a lifetime?

Steve,,I go along with your genetic factor,,but not with the list of signs of schizophrenia in a child. These  Professors of childhood aren't always right.
Most of the list is either medical,such as late walking,or a total lack of interest in the child,lack of stimulation,cooped up in a cot,pram or playpen and left to its own devices.

I watched a programme last night where a nanny videoed two little boys who were up and down all night long,every night trying to get into bed with mum.Mum allowed it,and was thoroughly exhausted.
Those little boys,young as they were,were controlling their mother,instead of the other way around. It was horrendous,they led their mum a merry dance.
Nanny then laid down rules to control them,,and in 3 days,after much upset and struggles,she succeeded. Discipline is what was needed,and had been lacking.Those children were doing exactly what they liked. If it had been left,,the health,both physical and mental,would have suffered,,and I see this a lot where a tiny child rules the roost.
I'd be more inclined to say that if that sort of behaviour was allowed to continue,,that that was a recipe for disaster,such as schizophrenia,,because when the time comes that they have to tow the line,,,can you imagine what the result would be.? Adult tantrums mixed with violence,and there you have it.

[maggie]

Hi steve, you cannot just pluck a personality disorder out of the air and state Jeremy Bamber has such a disorder.
 
He has been tested many times for such disorders but none have been diagnosed. 
Narcissistic behaviour is easy to recognise and is not hidden, by it's very nature it is flaunted.

So its clear surely that JB does not fulfil that criteria imo

[killingeve]

NaNu, just to complicate matters further. What do you think are the chances of Sheila having had an addictive personality? To owe large amounts for drugs would seem to put them into the necessary as opposed to the recreational catagory.

Morning April

I think the drug debt was a figment of the tabloids imagination.  Perhaps owed a small amount max.

Don't know much about drugs but according to wit stats SC lacked confidence and was sensitive around others so perhaps took the cocaine for social confidence as I believe this is what it does for users?  The cannabis perhaps just helped her chill out as again she doesn't sound very relaxed.

[killingeve]

Hi lookout have never read that Sheila was a difficult child?  I know Jeremy said she was a happy child.  Always thought it was puberty when Sheila began to show how troubled she was??

Morning Maggie

Thinking about the above again I don't think JB would have had any real idea about SC.  He would have been 6 when she went to boarding school.  Thereafter they would only have met in school hols and no doubt some of the hols would have been spent on hols which their respective schools arranged and/or at the homes of their respective friend's.  When SC was 16/17 she left WHF for London and never returned.  JB still at boarding school.  It seems to me they spent very little time together.  I was with my brother every day unless we stayed at  friend's, relatives or on a school trip.

[lookout]

There is no doubt that Sheila enjoyed the high life.Much has been said about Jeremy and his extravagances,,but in reality,it was Sheila who wasn't happy unless she was partying where there were good supplies of booze,cigarettes and " lines of coke ".
This sort of enjoyment was second nature to the adults,i.e. mothers,fathers of the children attending the twins school who Sheila had befriended.
These parties were a regular occurrence,especially after having celebrated childrens birthdays/parties,,then the adults would have their " party games ",who could " snort " a line the fastest.! No wonder her head was f****d-up.!
It's easy to run up all kinds of debts when you live beyond your means,,as Sheila wasn't exactly earning the type of money in which to fund that kind of lifestyle.
It was a life of luxury and glamour that Sheila craved,,much to the chagrin of June,who was wise enough to see it all getting out of hand.
The modelling was nothing but a seedy environment,watched by equally seedy ageing fat,bald-headed me,who the girls relied on.
What a downward spiral.!
If Sheila was already borderline for being mentally ill,she'd proved to be in a worse state than the other models whose life-styles had led them down the path of iniquity,,their conditions exacerbated by late night partying and drug-taking,where Sheila was no exception.
A lot of Sheilas' illness was brought on by her own doing,,though not helped by an inexperienced mother who was at a loss what to do.
I'm obviously going to spark off some controversy,,but I've seen more of life than others on this forum.
Sheila was heading for self-destruction,,but also the destruction of others in her path.!

[Patti]

There is no doubt that Sheila enjoyed the high life.Much has been said about Jeremy and his extravagances,,but in reality,it was Sheila who wasn't happy unless she was partying where there were good supplies of booze,cigarettes and " lines of coke ".
This sort of enjoyment was second nature to the adults,i.e. mothers,fathers of the children attending the twins school who Sheila had befriended.
These parties were a regular occurrence,especially after having celebrated childrens birthdays/parties,,then the adults would have their " party games ",who could " snort " a line the fastest.! No wonder her head was f****d-up.!
It's easy to run up all kinds of debts when you live beyond your means,,as Sheila wasn't exactly earning the type of money in which to fund that kind of lifestyle.
It was a life of luxury and glamour that Sheila craved,,much to the chagrin of June,who was wise enough to see it all getting out of hand.
The modelling was nothing but a seedy environment,watched by equally seedy ageing fat,bald-headed me,who the girls relied on.
What a downward spiral.!
If Sheila was already borderline for being mentally ill,she'd proved to be in a worse state than the other models whose life-styles had led them down the path of iniquity,,their conditions exacerbated by late night partying and drug-taking,where Sheila was no exception.
A lot of Sheilas' illness was brought on by her own doing,,though not helped by an inexperienced mother who was at a loss what to do.
I'm obviously going to spark off some controversy,,but I've seen more of life than others on this forum.
Sheila was heading for self-destruction,,but also the destruction of others in her path.!

Morning Lookout you certainly know how to tell it...lol

I think the London scene was far different from the scene I had at that time. I say this because Sheila and I are only two years apart.  I have never seen a drug and never witnessed anyone taking drugs to this day. 

I think its a bit unfair to label Sheila as being a drug addict, although she did have traces of cocaine in her system. It could be of course that she took that substance at Colin's party or just before she left for WHF or whilst she was there. 

Her modelling career in my opinion never took off......and all the hype about her being a successful one is untrue....I personally feel that she needed to look and feel good, it made her happy, but there were times when she did not look so good as reported by the nurse from Notts.  Sheila's cousin Helen reported that she was forever straitening her dress to make it look neat....and it was also reported that Sheila was always asking about the way she looked. 

Far be it for me to say, but I strongly feel, that this poor lass had an awful life from age of 17.  Her mother was rightly concerned as would any parent be with a married daughter and two little ones and neither Colin or Sheila worked and June provided for them.  June bought Colin a car, she also bought them a home and provided them with food.....I doubt they could afford to live the high life, but Sheila was a friendly person and had many friends, hence she was invited to many parties.....

This thing about owing money to drug barons....must hold some substance in my opinion, maybe not the amount that was reported.....

Raining heavily here.....   

[lookout]

Morning Lookout you certainly know how to tell it...lol

I think the London scene was far different from the scene I had at that time. I say this because Sheila and I are only two years apart.  I have never seen a drug and never witnessed anyone taking drugs to this day. 

I think its a bit unfair to label Sheila as being a drug addict, although she did have traces of cocaine in her system. It could be of course that she took that substance at Colin's party or just before she left for WHF or whilst she was there. 

Her modelling career in my opinion never took off......and all the hype about her being a successful one is untrue....I personally feel that she needed to look and feel good, it made her happy, but there were times when she did not look so good as reported by the nurse from Notts.  Sheila's cousin Helen reported that she was forever straitening her dress to make it look neat....and it was also reported that Sheila was always asking about the way she looked. 

Far be it for me to say, but I strongly feel, that this poor lass had an awful life from age of 17.  Her mother was rightly concerned as would any parent be with a married daughter and two little ones and neither Colin or Sheila worked and June provided for them.  June bought Colin a car, she also bought them a home and provided them with food.....I doubt they could afford to live the high life, but Sheila was a friendly person and had many friends, hence she was invited to many parties.....

This thing about owing money to drug barons....must hold some substance in my opinion, maybe not the amount that was reported.....

Raining heavily here.....   

Hi Patti,,I've no intentions of " wrapping anything up ".This is about a side of life that wasn't all rosy,,and more than enough was,and is said about Jeremy and his life-style,,but at least he was working and making the effort.
These parties that Sheila attended with other parents and friends from school always involved drugs,,so Patti,,long-term effects of drug-taking does take its toll and is as addictive as cigarette smoking,,in fact more so,,because where cigs are more easily obtainable,,drugs aren't always,,particularly if smoking/snorting the hard stuff.
Just like cigs,Sheila would have used drugs as a " crutch " when being introduced to anyone,especially on the work-front,as you have a catch 22 situation where,if your self-esteem is low,then you need help to " perk it up ",,but it masks the real problem,and this is how Sheila managed her life,,which must have been very frustrating for the most part.
It's much harder to wean off drugs as it is cigs,,because the side-effects are excruciating-------------I've witnessed it,,and it's frightening.The self-harm,shakes,vomiting,it's horrendous.
Until anyone has seen someone going through the horrors of withdrawal,,it's no wonder that the drug-taker sticks to the easiest route of continuing. They are also suicidal too when attending withdrawal programmes.

Dry here,but bitterly cold,brrrrrrr.Winter draws on.

[killingeve]

There is no doubt that Sheila enjoyed the high life.Much has been said about Jeremy and his extravagances,,but in reality,it was Sheila who wasn't happy unless she was partying where there were good supplies of booze,cigarettes and " lines of coke ".
This sort of enjoyment was second nature to the adults,i.e. mothers,fathers of the children attending the twins school who Sheila had befriended.
These parties were a regular occurrence,especially after having celebrated childrens birthdays/parties,,then the adults would have their " party games ",who could " snort " a line the fastest.! No wonder her head was f****d-up.!
It's easy to run up all kinds of debts when you live beyond your means,,as Sheila wasn't exactly earning the type of money in which to fund that kind of lifestyle.
It was a life of luxury and glamour that Sheila craved,,much to the chagrin of June,who was wise enough to see it all getting out of hand.
The modelling was nothing but a seedy environment,watched by equally seedy ageing fat,bald-headed me,who the girls relied on.
What a downward spiral.!
If Sheila was already borderline for being mentally ill,she'd proved to be in a worse state than the other models whose life-styles had led them down the path of iniquity,,their conditions exacerbated by late night partying and drug-taking,where Sheila was no exception.
A lot of Sheilas' illness was brought on by her own doing,,though not helped by an inexperienced mother who was at a loss what to do.
I'm obviously going to spark off some controversy,,but I've seen more of life than others on this forum.
Sheila was heading for self-destruction,,but also the destruction of others in her path.!

Morning Lookout

I wouldn't say controversy as much as shock  . I always had you down as slim with a full head of hair 

Lol think you've od on Claire Powell 

[lookout]

Morning Lookout

I wouldn't say controversy as much as shock  . I always had you down as slim with a full head of hair 

Lol think you've od on Claire Powell 

Yes,,still slim,,still hair down to my waist. ?? What's that got to do with anything.?
Why not give those who just " look in ",get a background of the " not so innocent " Sheila.? Even if it was penned by Claire Powell,who was obviously in the know.?

[killingeve]

Yes,,still slim,,still hair down to my waist. ?? What's that got to do with anything.?
Why not give those who just " look in ",get a background of the " not so innocent " Sheila.? Even if it was penned by Claire Powell,who was obviously in the know.?

It's a typo in your post  . Well at least I think it is  . Check back it reads so funny. 

We see SC differently.  I see her as an innocent victim from the day she was born until the day she died  . I think she was a sweet sensitive soul who was misunderstood and let down by those around her 

[susan]

Hi lookout  do you use your lovely long hair as a scarf and ear muffs in the cold weather

[maggie]

It's a typo in your post  . Well at least I think it is  . Check back it reads so funny. 

We see SC differently.  I see her as an innocent victim from the day she was born until the day she died  . I think she was a sweet sensitive soul who was misunderstood and let down by those around her 

An old friend of mine knew someone who had shared a flat or been friendly with sheila at boarding school. Unfortuatey, she cant remember what this person told her about Sheila. 

[lookout]

It's a typo in your post  . Well at least I think it is  . Check back it reads so funny. 

We see SC differently.  I see her as an innocent victim from the day she was born until the day she died  . I think she was a sweet sensitive soul who was misunderstood and let down by those around her 

NN,,I'd go along with the latter part of your post,,but not the first part. Babies aren't victims,,that's entirely the wrong word. Victims aren't born,,they're created . Babies are born innocent,and dependent on lots of things,can become victims later on in life. Some become victims of their success,such as child prodigys'. To become a victim,there has to be a trauma of sorts in their life,to which they're aware of. Parents splitting up,,bullying,,inner fears,,medical problems.
A genetic predisposition can already be there when a child is born,,but this may,or may not show itself until early childhood,late teens and later,,nobody knows. Dependent on the genetic make-up as to what lies dormant,,or what sparks an " illness " off in the dormant gene,,sets out a pattern of events for the future.
It's exactly the same for the cancer gene,,which is there,and may be there for a good few years until an injury to the body " wakes it up " and aggravates. I've known two people who led extremely healthy lives,,very good lives in fact,,but sadly ( separate incidents ) when they tripped and fell,,it wakened the dormant cancer cells,,which previously they'd had no symptoms,,so by that time,the cancer had spread,unknowingly.
What I'm saying is that a childs' background,,maybe through the genetic chain,,can be disturbed and bring out the hidden gene,,anywhere in the body,,but mainly the mind in a child,,but given the right environment,that gene would remain inactive.
God,it's hard to explain by writing,but I know what I;m on about,,which is just as well really,I suppose.

[lookout]

Isn't geneticism/genetic engineering fascinating.?
There was a strong genetic system going on with both Sheila and Jeremy. Consider their looks. They were no " ordinary " children,,but children with breeding.Not necessarily from their birth parents,though Sheilas' father is an unknown quantity up to now,,but he'd have been no ordinary man,given Sheilas' beauty.
Genetics are responsible for mapping out your life,,though in poor Jeremys' case,,he didn't fare very well,,but at the same time,his genetic make-up is wholly responsible for his endurance.
Compared with those with brains of a rocking horse,,they wouldn't have lasted five minutes without " kicking off ".
Jeremys' genes are strong,,which may possibly be inherited from his birth father,or forefathers,,but whichever way you look at it,good looks versus good genes.

[tyler]

I know this is not relevant to what you are all discussing,but I just read on the official website that SC was in fact only 15 when she underwent her first abortion. Could this be a mistake?