Neglect and the Effect on Developing Brains of Babies/Small Children

[lookout]

Lookout, another thought has occurred to me. We credit Sheila with an academic background, but we only know about her mother's family. Her father and his background are an unknown quantity and it may be from his side that there is mental/psych disorder.

Of course,April,,this is what I'm trying to work on,,particularly when I mentioned royalty.

[lookout]

I'll give you a for instance regarding genetics.:
As a family,,we are all fair/blonde.Same g/parents both sides,same parentage,etc, yet a blood disease has only just cropped up with a member of the family,which only happens in Pakistan/India/Africa/Asia and Spain a possibility,but the others for sure.
We'd possibly have to go back 5 generations or more for this to come to light,for as far as I know,the disease hasn't had a mention,but will now result in a screening programme.
And this is KNOWING your family,,so pretty difficult for those who don't know.
So whatever's wrong with you,,blame it on your genes.  

[Jane]

I'll give you a for instance regarding genetics.:
As a family,,we are all fair/blonde.Same g/parents both sides,same parentage,etc, yet a blood disease has only just cropped up with a member of the family,which only happens in Pakistan/India/Africa/Asia and Spain a possibility,but the others for sure.
We'd possibly have to go back 5 generations or more for this to come to light,for as far as I know,the disease hasn't had a mention,but will now result in a screening programme.
And this is KNOWING your family,,so pretty difficult for those who don't know.
So whatever's wrong with you,,blame it on your genes.

Lookout, the older I get, the more of a problem for me it's likely to become. I feel as if I an the original "Tabula Rasa." Every time I'm asked if there is XY or Z in my family I have to say that I have no idea. On the other hand perhaps it's as well NOT to know about some things.

[lookout]

Lookout, the older I get, the more of a problem for me it's likely to become. I feel as if I an the original "Tabula Rasa." Every time I'm asked if there is XY or Z in my family I have to say that I have no idea. On the other hand perhaps it's as well NOT to know about some things.

Yes,April,,what you don't know,doesn't hurt you. Probably the best policy.

[Steve_uk]

The Sheila Caffell attachment disorder thread has well and truly left the station with the usual suspects cock-a-hoop on board. I seem to recall Julie stating that Jeremy told her Sheila had "done some terrible things to him in the past",but of course Jeremy won't elucidate because these things don't exist,or don't you think Jeremy would have used them by now with his instinct for self-preservation? The problem is one thing would lead onto another,and Jeremy would finally have to divulge why he hated his parents so much as related to Goldsmiths student James Richards,and why he speculated on the Farm burning down at Christmas 1984.

Jeremy is a cheat and a liar:he burgled his own family's caravan park and lied about the motive for it,his lies continued that first morning at Goldhanger when for once in his life he was the centre of attention and beginning to enjoy it.He is suffering at the very least from narcissistic personality disorder,egged on from mail by the general public who have fallen for his hard-luck sob story,when he gambled to inherit a fortune he could hardly wait to receive and lost.

Sheila's schizophrenia to my mind was genetic:inherited from one side of the family and it will be interesting to see what Patti comes up with. One article I read today concerns warning signs of schizophrenia in infancy,and of the ten pointers which I list below only one seemingly applies to Sheila,that of low school attainment,which could also be put down to genetic factors and have no connection with mental illness.

10 Warning Signs of Childhood Schizophrenia

1) Late or unusual crawling or walking
2) Language delays
3) Abnormal motor behaviours(flapping arms,rocking)
4) Hypersensitivity to stimuli
5) Unfocused eye movements
6) Abnormal sleep habits
7) Inappropriate emotions
8)Social withdrawal
9) Poor school performance
10) Illogical thinking

I repeat:had Jeremy witnessed any of these childhood behaviours in his sister growing up he would have told his Defence team by now:it's clutching at straws to say the least,but why break the habit of a lifetime?

[Caroline R]

The Sheila Caffell attachment disorder thread has well and truly left the station with the usual suspects cock-a-hoop on board. I seem to recall Julie stating that Jeremy told her Sheila had "done some terrible things to him in the past",but of course Jeremy won't elucidate because these things don't exist,or don't you think Jeremy would have used them by now with his instinct for self-preservation? The problem is one thing would lead onto another,and Jeremy would finally have to divulge why he hated his parents so much as related to Goldsmiths student James Richards,and why he speculated on the Farm burning down at Christmas 1984.

Jeremy is a cheat and a liar:he burgled his own family's caravan park and lied about the motive for it,his lies continued that first morning at Goldhanger when for once in his life he was the centre of attention and beginning to enjoy it.He is suffering at the very least from narcissistic personality disorder,egged on from mail by the general public who have fallen for his hard-luck sob story,when he gambled to inherit a fortune he could hardly wait to receive and lost.

Sheila's schizophrenia to my mind was genetic:inherited from one side of the family and it will be interesting to see what Patti comes up with. One article I read today concerns warning signs of schizophrenia in infancy,and of the ten pointers which I list below only one seemingly applies to Sheila,that of low school attainment,which could also be put down to genetic factors and have no connection with mental illness.

10 Warning Signs of Childhood Schizophrenia

1) Late or unusual crawling or walking
2) Language delays
3) Abnormal motor behaviours(flapping arms,rocking)
4) Hypersensitivity to stimuli
5) Unfocused eye movements
6) Abnormal sleep habits
7) Inappropriate emotions
8)Social withdrawal
9) Poor school performance
10) Illogical thinking

I repeat:had Jeremy witnessed any of these childhood behaviours in his sister growing up he would have told his Defence team by now:it's clutching at straws to say the least,but why break the habit of a lifetime?

What are you talking about? Jeremy doesn't need to tell the defence team Sheila had schizophrenia - they already know, it was diagnosed!! My brother had it and guess what? No one realised until he was behaving oddly - same as Sheila!!

[Steve_uk]

What are you talking about? Jeremy doesn't need to tell the defence team Sheila had schizophrenia - they already know, it was diagnosed!! My brother had it and guess what? No one realised until he was behaving oddly - same as Sheila!!

We're trying to ascertain whether permanent psychological damage was sustained by Sheila in the first year or so of her life whilst June was incarcerated for a time at St. Andrew's,leaving her in the care of unknown women whom one assumes had a modicum of childcare training but who the Defence by necessity accuse of being incompetent. I maintain that there were no such signs and that the whole basis of this thesis is based on conjecture.

[Caroline R]

We're trying to ascertain whether permanent psychological damage was sustained by Sheila in the first year or so of her life whilst June was incarcerated for a time at St. Andrew's,leaving her in the care of unknown women whom one assumes had a modicum of childcare training but who the Defence by necessity accuse of being incompetent. I maintain that there were no such signs and that the whole basis of this thesis is based on conjecture.

Of course it's conjecture!! But everything you say is conjecture - so what's your problem?

[maggie]

The Sheila Caffell attachment disorder thread has well and truly left the station with the usual suspects cock-a-hoop on board. I seem to recall Julie stating that Jeremy told her Sheila had "done some terrible things to him in the past",but of course Jeremy won't elucidate because these things don't exist,or don't you think Jeremy would have used them by now with his instinct for self-preservation? The problem is one thing would lead onto another,and Jeremy would finally have to divulge why he hated his parents so much as related to Goldsmiths student James Richards,and why he speculated on the Farm burning down at Christmas 1984.

Jeremy is a cheat and a liar:he burgled his own family's caravan park and lied about the motive for it,his lies continued that first morning at Goldhanger when for once in his life he was the centre of attention and beginning to enjoy it.He is suffering at the very least from narcissistic personality disorder,egged on from mail by the general public who have fallen for his hard-luck sob story,when he gambled to inherit a fortune he could hardly wait to receive and lost.

Sheila's schizophrenia to my mind was genetic:inherited from one side of the family and it will be interesting to see what Patti comes up with. One article I read today concerns warning signs of schizophrenia in infancy,and of the ten pointers which I list below only one seemingly applies to Sheila,that of low school attainment,which could also be put down to genetic factors and have no connection with mental illness.

10 Warning Signs of Childhood Schizophrenia

1) Late or unusual crawling or walking
2) Language delays
3) Abnormal motor behaviours(flapping arms,rocking)
4) Hypersensitivity to stimuli
5) Unfocused eye movements
6) Abnormal sleep habits
7) Inappropriate emotions
8)Social withdrawal
9) Poor school performance
10) Illogical thinking

I repeat:had Jeremy witnessed any of these childhood behaviours in his sister growing up he would have told his Defence team by now:it's clutching at straws to say the least,but why break the habit of a lifetime?

You quote poor school performance,  my cousin developed schizophrenia when he was at a top university reading medicine, so he didn't exhibit poor school performance or illogical thinking.  After failing part of an exam he tried to kill himself and it was then discovered he had schizophrenia.  He had been a very sensitive and shy child which  does seem to often be the case with children who develop schizophrenia in their teenage years.

[lookout]

We're trying to ascertain whether permanent psychological damage was sustained by Sheila in the first year or so of her life whilst June was incarcerated for a time at St. Andrew's,leaving her in the care of unknown women whom one assumes had a modicum of childcare training but who the Defence by necessity accuse of being incompetent. I maintain that there were no such signs and that the whole basis of this thesis is based on conjecture.

Steve,,that could be a possibility, as June,who was the primary carer,the childs' mother,would have been missed by the child,,and some are more sensitive to separation than others.
 Sheila wouldn't have remembered beyond that of course.
I can't imagine that Sheila at such an age,,would have seen many familiar adult faces,,such as grannie,,as grannies are the ideal person to fall back on during a crisis. Not all babies adapt very well at seeing strange faces,,and it DOES leave its mark,as in subconscious flashbacks. They know mum best.

[Jane]

We're trying to ascertain whether permanent psychological damage was sustained by Sheila in the first year or so of her life whilst June was incarcerated for a time at St. Andrew's,leaving her in the care of unknown women whom one assumes had a modicum of childcare training but who the Defence by necessity accuse of being incompetent. I maintain that there were no such signs and that the whole basis of this thesis is based on conjecture.

And you, with your seemingly BOTTOMLESS cauldron of LACK of knowledge know that for certain, do you? I'm really uncertain how you managed to learn ANYTHING as you seem to think you know better that anyone else. Yes, there were those trained in childcare and mostly they did their best but in a nursery with numerous babies to care for, none are likely to receive special attention, bad enough if the child has a mother to go home to, but Sheila, for a long time didn't. She may have been cared for. She probably wasn't loved. There's a HUGE difference. You present us with a long list of signs that YOU say were non existent in Sheila. how do YOU know? YOU weren't there!!!!!

[lookout]

Steve,,that could be a possibility, as June,who was the primary carer,the childs' mother,would have been missed by the child,,and some are more sensitive to separation than others.
 Sheila wouldn't have remembered beyond that of course.
I can't imagine that Sheila at such an age,,would have seen many familiar adult faces,,such as grannie,,as grannies are the ideal person to fall back on during a crisis. Not all babies adapt very well at seeing strange faces,,and it DOES leave its mark,as in subconscious flashbacks. They know mum best.

Babies/toddlers can't tell you how they feel,,they act it out by way of frustration and bouts of crying,as well as being unsettled which can easily be fobbed off as a " teething " problem. You have to know about the psychology of babies/toddlers to understand.

[Jane]

Babies/toddlers can't tell you how they feel,,they act it out by way of frustration and bouts of crying,as well as being unsettled which can easily be fobbed off as a " teething " problem. You have to know about the psychology of babies/toddlers to understand.

To put it into perspective, perhaps Steve could try to imagine what it must be like to lay on a bed on which he was trapped by insurmountably high sides. He lays there thinking that someone will come soon, but they don't and he becomes frightened. He calls but nobody comes. He feels totally alone, rejected. Eventually, after what seems like hours, someone comes and leaves a plate of food but doesn't speak. This is the routine for the day. People come and go but take little notice of him. He longs for his mum. He needs a cuddle. He needs his mum to talk to him, but his mum doesn't come. I wonder how many days/WEEKS Steve could cope with this before there was an alteration in his personality?

[lookout]

To put it into perspective, perhaps Steve could try to imagine what it must be like to lay on a bed on which he was trapped by insurmountably high sides. He lays there thinking that someone will come soon, but they don't and he becomes frightened. He calls but nobody comes. He feels totally alone, rejected. Eventually, after what seems like hours, someone comes and leaves a plate of food but doesn't speak. This is the routine for the day. People come and go but take little notice of him. He longs for his mum. He needs a cuddle. He needs his mum to talk to him, but his mum doesn't come. I wonder how many days/WEEKS Steve could cope with this before there was an alteration in his personality?

That's about the size of it,April. Trouble ahead from then on from a confused and frustrated child who can't yet speak.

[killingeve]

We're trying to ascertain whether permanent psychological damage was sustained by Sheila in the first year or so of her life whilst June was incarcerated for a time at St. Andrew's,leaving her in the care of unknown women whom one assumes had a modicum of childcare training but who the Defence by necessity accuse of being incompetent. I maintain that there were no such signs and that the whole basis of this thesis is based on conjecture.

Please refer to the thread title.  Abrupt and repeat changes in primary caregivers leading to attachment disorders  are one thing but neglect is another.  We know the extended family knew nothing of SC's mental illness.  It rather begs the question how much they knew about June's mental illness in 1959 caused by her decision to adopt SC?

Excerpt from Colin Caffell's book:

"One of the most striking things about that day, although not altogether surprising for me, was the fact that, the more I talked to June and Nevill's relations, the more I realised none of them actually knew anything had been seriously wrong with Bambs - not even June's sister Pam.  Many of them said that had they known, they would have been more than willing to help and share the burden.  Why hadn't I contacted them and told them all about it?  I couldn't believe what I was hearing and could only reply by saying that I didn't feel it had been my business to betray the Bamber's confidence.  They were very private people whose decisions I had to respect - whether right or wrong.  These people had no idea how much I'd need them as allies to convince June and Nevill of how strongly I felt Bamb's treatment should have been changed".

What I would like to know is EXACTLY what was going on in WHF between the time the Bambers took SC  from the nursery in Box, Wilts in Oct '58 to WHF  and the time June was admitted to St Andrews, Northants in 1959. 

Who knew about June's mental illness?
June was admitted for severe depression and ect how long had she been ill prior to admittance?
What quality of care did SC receive prior to June's admittance?
Was SC neglected?
Was SC abused?
Who was SC's primary caregiver whilst June was in St Andrews?

David Brodzinsky - An internationally known expert in the field of adoption assumes adoptive mothers bond quickly with their adoptive babies.  Wonder what he would have to say about the above?  Is this the man that could finally, after nearly three decades, unlock the secrets at WHF?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kv_GkEcITkE&feature=youtube_gdata_player

This case is about two people and two issues and that is June and Sheila and attachment and loss.