Truth of the night before

[Jane]

We could argue as to what Sheila's diagnosis was-paranoid,chronic,catatonic schizophrenia,but it's my belief Jeremy knew far more about his sister's condition than he let on. He in any case must have witnessed first hand the deterioration in someone in whom Jeremy as a teenager would have been proud to a woman incapable of earning her own living and dependent on June's trip to Maida Vale where she would write a cheque from the proceeds of the Osea Road dividend.

Yet it's never Sheila who is bleating for more money-always Jeremy,and in this we see Sheila's true character traits:an immature,gullible,easily-led young woman who like to be told she was pretty,but who was completely impractical at the best of times,and not fit for very much after her illness befell her.

How in God's name can you justify saying that Sheila never bleated for money. We have documented nearly EVERY word which Jeremy is SUPPOSED to have uttered but Sheila may as well have been DUMB. Just THINK for once Steve and consider some of this. "The boys need new shoes, I can't afford them"/"There's a school outing, but I can't afford to let them go"/"I couldn't afford to get groceries because........." But it seemed that she still managed to find the money for her smokes. As for her "not being fit for very much" is this the girl who YOU told us had everything to live for?

[lookout]

What a come-down to have to go cleaning after living the high-life as a model.! Simply because Sheila couldn't hold down a job,,a suitable job,anyway.That should be a hint towards her state of health,as in Sheilas' years,,there were tons of good jobs to be had. The womans' mind was tormented and she couldn't settle to do anything. Wasn't there a typing class thrown in somewhere.? Nimble fingered.? Nothing to do with her physical ability at all,,but everything to do with her mind.

[Steve_uk]

Steve,,schizophrenics aren't the tidiest of people.In fact,their surrounds reflect their mixed-up minds and thoughts,,though they don't process their thoughts the same as we do. The telephone,,which,,working perfectly,,was found under a heap of magazines on the chair. What it was doing there in the first place was anyones' guess,,but it wasn't deliberately hidden. It could well have been someones' intention to put it back on the worktops.It was obvious that someone was looking at magazines that evening,with one or two having been left on the table the next morning.
Both Neville and Jeremy would have been working the fields,so switching or hiding telephones wouldn't have been given a second thought.
For all we know,,it could well have been Sheila who put the phone there that night so that nobody could phone out from downstairs.
Would that have been the phone that was answered when Pam rang.? I've just thought of that.

It was never in Jeremys' interest to kill anyone " for the money ",as he was/is intelligent enough to realise that if he was caught,then he'd relinquish every halfpenny as soon as the cuffs went on. If he had thoughts of murder at all,,what about the old and ailing granny Speakman,,who didn't live long after the trial anyway.? Less than a year to wait.? Nobody is that desperate,,and he had a few hundred of his own,,so he could certainly pay his way,,as well as that of greedy-chops,the " high-society/maintenance " girlfriend.

Steve,,if you can't yet fathom out who the greedy ones were,yet,,then you're not as clever as I give you credit for. The arguments between the family that went on for ten years or so after the tragedy,,that reduced AP to a nervous wreck fighting for what was his. You can't blame Jeremy for that,,he was well chained.

On a more depressing note about the stinking lack of justice in this country,,Baby P's mother is going to be released any time soon.! Because she doesn't " pose a threat ".What.?
She only watched while her boyfriend and brother tortured that beautiful child to death.!

Well either Sheila premeditated the crime earlier in the evening by hiding the bedroom telephone under a pile of magazines,which I can just about see Sheila reading whilst waiting for her nails to dry,or she had a sudden loss of control due to her illness and fired off 25 shots in a short space of time. Nevill and June's material fortunes were at their zenith,as Jeremy must have seen always sniffing around as he was where there was money to be had like a bear to honey(remember the Osea Road break in?),so don't tell me money and more importantly the immediacy of money in Jeremy's life wasn't significant.

[Jane]

We could argue as to what Sheila's diagnosis was-paranoid,chronic,catatonic schizophrenia,but it's my belief Jeremy knew far more about his sister's condition than he let on. He in any case must have witnessed first hand the deterioration in someone in whom Jeremy as a teenager would have been proud to a woman incapable of earning her own living and dependent on June's trip to Maida Vale where she would write a cheque from the proceeds of the Osea Road dividend.

Yet it's never Sheila who is bleating for more money-always Jeremy,and in this we see Sheila's true character traits:an immature,gullible,easily-led young woman who like to be told she was pretty,but who was completely impractical at the best of times,and not fit for very much after her illness befell her.

How amusing that this just happened to be post 101. It certainly deserved space in a room of that number. If you had FULLY read post 77 you would know that it was unlikely that ANYONE at WHF was aware of the extent and possible ramifications of Sheila's illness and you would also know that the middleclass euphamisn for ANYthing approaching mental illness was referred to as "exhaustion," so with no internet and a very probable DISinclination to be bothered with any problem his sister may be experiencing, how could Jeremy POSSIBLY have known more about her illness than he let on to.

[Steve_uk]

How in God's name can you justify saying that Sheila never bleated for money. We have documented nearly EVERY word which Jeremy is SUPPOSED to have uttered but Sheila may as well have been DUMB. Just THINK for once Steve and consider some of this. "The boys need new shoes, I can't afford them"/"There's a school outing, but I can't afford to let them go"/"I couldn't afford to get groceries because........." But it seemed that she still managed to find the money for her smokes. As for her "not being fit for very much" is this the girl who YOU told us had everything to live for?

Those were Doctor Ferguson's words-a girl who wouldn't have committed suicide because "she had too much to live for". I never heard of a grasping or a scheming Sheila however much the Jeremy supporters might wish it were so. June sent Sheila round on occasion to char for Ann Eaton,though what use she must have been God knows,but it does show Sheila as a malleable individual who could be easily influenced and not the hard,wilful character some people might want to depict.

[maggie]

Well either Sheila premeditated the crime earlier in the evening by hiding the bedroom telephone under a pile of magazines,which I can just about see Sheila reading whilst waiting for her nails to dry,or she had a sudden loss of control due to her illness and fired off 25 shots in a short space of time. Nevill and June's material fortunes were at their zenith,as Jeremy must have seen always sniffing around as he was where there was money to be had like a bear to honey(remember the Osea Road break in?),so don't tell me money and more importantly the immediacy of money in Jeremy's life wasn't significant.

I am pretty sure the phone had been in situ in the kitchen for a few days, I am sure I have read it recently in a document or statement.  The house was so untidy it's a wonder they could find anything including the phone, your's is a poor argument steve but I know you won't take any notice of anything I suggest. 

[Steve_uk]

According to what you've previously said, NOT SO. It was YOU who insisted that according to the terms of Nevill's will, Jeremy could ONLY claim his inheritance if he stuck with the farm.

But what was the inheritance? The Bambers were tenant farmers who did not own White House Farm outright. The inheritance was what lay within Nevill and June's building society books,an inheritance which Jeremy saw being eaten into with Sheila and June's hospital fees and possible forthcoming private education for the twins.

[Steve_uk]

But Sheila was so severely UNDERdosed that the coordination would have been irradicated and she would have been as capable as the next person of performing everyday tasks.

This is not how schizophrenia works,sorry.

[Jane]

Well either Sheila premeditated the crime earlier in the evening by hiding the bedroom telephone under a pile of magazines,which I can just about see Sheila reading whilst waiting for her nails to dry,or she had a sudden loss of control due to her illness and fired off 25 shots in a short space of time. Nevill and June's material fortunes were at their zenith,as Jeremy must have seen always sniffing around as he was where there was money to be had like a bear to honey(remember the Osea Road break in?),so don't tell me money and more importantly the immediacy of money in Jeremy's life wasn't significant.

Why on earth would anyone in their right mind "hide" something ider a pile of papers which at any moment could be moved again in order to locate something under them? And hang on a minute, just a few breaths ago you were telling us that Nevill was cashstrapped because of rennovations to the Surrey property and Sheila's Hospital bills.

[Steve_uk]

Hi Steve, it is the medication which cause the coordination issues, so you cannot compare like with like. We know Sheila had cut her Haloperidol to the bone and was due her next injection but she wasn't taking any other medication even though she should have been therefore her coordination would have been as good as anyone else.  Back when we hear AE talking about 'putting beans on toast' she very well may have been on heavy meds but that was a long time before. 

The procyclidine which I assume Sheila was taking,or a smilar generic drug would be there to inhibit any tremor suffered as a result from taking Haloperidol and other drugs. I'm afraid it's just not the case that Sheila reverts to normality with no drugs in her system as in that state she is susceptible to all the symptoms of her schizophrenia again,including hallucinations,hearing voices and so on.

[Jane]

Those were Doctor Ferguson's words-a girl who wouldn't have committed suicide because "she had too much to live for". I never heard of a grasping or a scheming Sheila however much the Jeremy supporters might wish it were so. June sent Sheila round on occasion to char for Ann Eaton,though what use she must have been God knows,but it does show Sheila as a malleable individual who could be easily influenced and not the hard,wilful character some people might want to depict.

I think you may find that this was during Sheila's school holidays. Ann was by this time married and pregnant. I will agree with you that she was of little use but I WOULD like to know which of us you'll name as the person who suggested that she was a "hard, wilful character." The only person I've ever heard utter those descriptive words of Sheila is YOU.

[lookout]

Well either Sheila premeditated the crime earlier in the evening by hiding the bedroom telephone under a pile of magazines,which I can just about see Sheila reading whilst waiting for her nails to dry,or she had a sudden loss of control due to her illness and fired off 25 shots in a short space of time. Nevill and June's material fortunes were at their zenith,as Jeremy must have seen always sniffing around as he was where there was money to be had like a bear to honey(remember the Osea Road break in?),so don't tell me money and more importantly the immediacy of money in Jeremy's life wasn't significant.

Steve,,I noticed JM hadn't any objections at the time of the Osea break-in. I'd have walked if a boyfriend of mine decided to break in anywhere. I'd have been petrified. Then again,,I was from different stock and wouldn't have supported it. Needless to say,JM quickly got a taste of stealing,didn't she.?

[Jane]

This is not how schizophrenia works,sorry.

We have it that the reason Sheila wished to have the dose lowered was because she was feeling slow from being over medicated. I would sooner take her word for it than yours.

[Steve_uk]

Why on earth would anyone in their right mind "hide" something ider a pile of papers which at any moment could be moved again in order to locate something under them? And hang on a minute, just a few breaths ago you were telling us that Nevill was cashstrapped because of rennovations to the Surrey property and Sheila's Hospital bills.

I think Nevill took a metaphorical pause for breath after realizing that the commitment to renovating Clifton House was costing more than he had previously envisaged,and this new attitude towards money which June would have upheld permeated down towards Jeremy,who realized that the well of money was drying up in his direction. He might also have got wind of the favourable treatment Anthony Pargeter and Jackie Wood were receiving and vowed that he wouldn't let any more of his inheritance slip through his hands.

[lookout]

Steve,,I noticed JM hadn't any objections at the time of the Osea break-in. I'd have walked if a boyfriend of mine decided to break in anywhere. I'd have been petrified. Then again,,I was from different stock and wouldn't have supported it. Needless to say,JB quickly got a taste of stealing,didn't she.?

Ooops,,I meant JM,,not JB.