Author Topic: Truth of the night before  (Read 37175 times)

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Offline Patti

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Re: Truth of the night before
« Reply #60 on: September 28, 2013, 11:27:PM »
perhaps steve is a time traveller and really invented this...

Mertol  ;D ;D ;D ;D

I love cluedo....had it when I was a child along with many books on Dick Barton.....a famous detective.  ;D ;D ;D ;D

Offline grahameb

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Re: Truth of the night before
« Reply #61 on: September 29, 2013, 12:02:AM »
Mertol  ;D ;D ;D ;D

I love cluedo....had it when I was a child along with many books on Dick Barton.....a famous detective.  ;D ;D ;D ;D
I used to listen to that on the wireless.

Offline Patti

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Re: Truth of the night before
« Reply #62 on: September 29, 2013, 12:05:AM »
I used to listen to that on the wireless.

That brings back memories....and Snowey....Nite Grahame/all I am done in... ;D ;D ;D ;D

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Truth of the night before
« Reply #63 on: September 29, 2013, 02:08:AM »



Susan, I have to go with that, too. If Nevill said "SHE has .......", it CAN be ambiguous, "SHE" being either a diminuative for Sheila OR a reference to June/Sheila. It's a HUGE ask in  the belief stakes, but it's JUST possible that it was June who cracked first. Having to cater for exta bodies in the house, having to look after/cook for/wash for small children, having to provide ad hoc snacks and meals for the harvesting men, having to cope with her daughter who, for all the help she gave, may just as well not have been there, having to cancel a meeting because she was probably too exhausted/worried to focus, even telling her sister that she was concerned about Sheila, it sounds as if she may have been at her wits' end.
Didn't the bullets go through June in bed and make holes in the pillow? It's strange that none of the 25 bullets discharged by a woman in psychosis missed their target,or that there were no bullets left in the gun after her "suicide". Was keeping up appearances really too much for June,or was Nevill her rock,a relationship which Jeremy resented because he felt excluded from it.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2013, 02:32:AM by Steve_uk »

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Truth of the night before
« Reply #64 on: September 29, 2013, 02:31:AM »
Hi Maggie/Lookout

I have thought that too....I thought look well if NB had a rifle in his back at the time and was made to call Jeremy in order to get him to go to the farm.  But why say Shelia has the gun and this is like saying a third party could have been involved....but if that was the case then why set Sheila up?  None of it makes sense does it Maggie.... :) :) :) :) :)
This scenario has been suggested along with others in this batch of posts. Scott Lomax came up with the theory of Sheila cutting off a call from Nevill to Jeremy by putting a finger over the handset. The problem is we all acknowledge Nevill at some stage that morning was fighting for his life,and under these circumstances anyone would lash out even if were your own daughter,yet there are no marks on Sheila. I also find it contrived when Nevill is rushing up and downstairs to check on the condition of his wife or the twins:far more likely to my mind is Jeremy bursting in the master bedroom with the element of surprise,quickly incapacitating June then aiming for Nevill's head to disable but not to kill as he must be seen to have had the opportunity to make a telephone call from the kitchen(remember the telephone in the master bedroom has been removed).

Both June and Nevill were busy that week with the arrival of their guests and the harvest,which can sometimes throw people off guard if they become wrapped up in themselves. Jeremy had had the perfect training to hide his feelings from his boarding school days,and only tolerated his parents because they had money. Once the flow of this dried up Jeremy came to realize his true purpose for his existence in their eyes, that of making profit for the Farm,and he rebelled at this,at a later age than the usual teenager. He never had a chance to bond with them and so their loss was not felt,hence his behaviour after the murders and his determination to leave the Farm for pastures new.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2013, 02:34:AM by Steve_uk »

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: Truth of the night before
« Reply #65 on: September 29, 2013, 02:47:AM »
Hi lookout (for later) I have followed this train of thought myself.  If going with the argument that we can see or hear what we want to believe we are seeing or hearing, I can imagine a scenario where Jeremy woken from a deep sleep answers the phone and hears a voice that sounds like his father, saying things only his father would be likely to say by the time he puts the phone down he has an unshakeable belief it is his father.
I believe this could be a remote possibility, don't think anyone else does, apart from anything how did anyone shoot Sheila without a struggle? :-\ :-\ :-\
We have to accept Jeremy wakes up from a sleep in the first place,manages to get down the stairs before the telephone stops ringing,that Nevill at the other end knows the Goldhanger number by heart and chooses to telephone this number rather than dial 999 himself,that Nevill manages to get to the telephone in the first place in an unharmed state,that it's immature Jeremy who decides to telephone the Police and not keep things in the family as was Nevill's justification for telephoning Jeremy in the first place. Far more likely Jeremy uses his answerphone to place a call from White House to Bourtree Cottage,then retrieves the tape on his return.

As for Sheila,we are not dealing with a mother in the normal sense of the word that final week let's be frank. Sheila is in a moribund state as evidenced by the Saturday night party,her reaction to the visit of the electrician,her vacant stare in the Tiptree store. Her personality is that of gullibility,of being easily led,of being unaware of people around her or of differentiating between the concept of fantasy and reality. Whilst this in theory gave Jeremy Bamber the opportunity to commit the perfect crime and use Sheila as a scapegoat the Jeremy supporters must also come to realize that when awoken in the middle of the night and quickly hurried by Jeremy under some pretext into the master bedroom Sheila would not have the first inkling of what was going on until it was too late..
« Last Edit: September 29, 2013, 02:50:AM by Steve_uk »

Offline maggie

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Re: Truth of the night before
« Reply #66 on: September 29, 2013, 03:55:AM »
Steve please dont use my 'remote possibility " to prove a point.  >:( >:(

Offline wilf

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Re: Truth of the night before
« Reply #67 on: September 29, 2013, 08:13:AM »
steve just a couple of comments on your post  to shoot in the head to disable but not kill to enable the wounded ot make a phone call is difficult to believe. as for remembering phone numbers off by heart, this was the days before memory phones remembering numbers is easy you do it automatically I still do it I've just done a quick count and I can think of ten that I know by heart family friends work etc. people brought up on digital will never have need for this but back then...its easy

Offline killingeve

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Re: Truth of the night before
« Reply #68 on: September 29, 2013, 08:21:AM »
We have to accept Jeremy wakes up from a sleep in the first place,manages to get down the stairs before the telephone stops ringing,that Nevill at the other end knows the Goldhanger number by heart and chooses to telephone this number rather than dial 999 himself,that Nevill manages to get to the telephone in the first place in an unharmed state,that it's immature Jeremy who decides to telephone the Police and not keep things in the family as was Nevill's justification for telephoning Jeremy in the first place. Far more likely Jeremy uses his answerphone to place a call from White House to Bourtree Cottage,then retrieves the tape on his return.

As for Sheila,we are not dealing with a mother in the normal sense of the word that final week let's be frank. Sheila is in a moribund state as evidenced by the Saturday night party,her reaction to the visit of the electrician,her vacant stare in the Tiptree store. Her personality is that of gullibility,of being easily led,of being unaware of people around her or of differentiating between the concept of fantasy and reality. Whilst this in theory gave Jeremy Bamber the opportunity to commit the perfect crime and use Sheila as a scapegoat the Jeremy supporters must also come to realize that when awoken in the middle of the night and quickly hurried by Jeremy under some pretext into the master bedroom Sheila would not have the first inkling of what was going on until it was too late..

Morning Steve_uk

The pot calling the kettle black springs to mind  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

You seem to have a stange view of those who have attended boarding school.  Slept with one last night and he seemed ok.   ;) ;) ;).

I think you will find that prisons are stuffed full of men who spent time in care ie childrens' homes not boarding schools.  Those who went to boarding school and find themselves in prison usually do so as a result of white collar crime eg the gorgeous Darius Guppy and the not so georgeous Lord Brocket.

Please do your homework or you face detention with Maggie  ;D ;D ;D




Offline killingeve

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Re: Truth of the night before
« Reply #69 on: September 29, 2013, 08:25:AM »
Steve please dont use my 'remote possibility " to prove a point.  >:( >:(

Morning Maggie

Do you ever sleep?  I'm beginning to think you're a robot and that's why you're such a good adoptive mother  ;) ;) ;)

Offline susan

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Re: Truth of the night before
« Reply #70 on: September 29, 2013, 08:26:AM »
Morning wilf  reading steve's posts earlier and could not understand why Jeremy would need to disable Ralph in the bedroom so as to make it look he reached the kitchen to make the pretend phone call why did Jeremy just not move the phone from downstairs upstairs where June and Ralph had been shot :( and take the phone off the cradle.

Offline tyler

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Re: Truth of the night before
« Reply #71 on: September 29, 2013, 09:19:AM »
Steve,if you don't mind me saying,there is a major problem with your train of thought regarding at least two of your allegations regarding JB. The first being that you are convinced that he switched around the telephones pre murders. Why then would he leave the upstairs office telephone in situ? The second is your allegation that Jeremy did not want to be tied to the farm and this is why he murdered his family. You know full well (and so did he) that Nevill's will tied him to the farm anyway,so what would JB actually have achieved by wiping out his family?

Offline susan

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Re: Truth of the night before
« Reply #72 on: September 29, 2013, 09:22:AM »
Morning tyler

good points you have made but sadly steve will take no notice and carry on with his own ridiculous theories ;D

Offline tyler

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Re: Truth of the night before
« Reply #73 on: September 29, 2013, 09:29:AM »
Susan...I do believe that you are probably right! x

Offline maggie

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Re: Truth of the night before
« Reply #74 on: September 29, 2013, 09:55:AM »
Morning Maggie

Do you ever sleep?  I'm beginning to think you're a robot and that's why you're such a good adoptive mother  ;) ;) ;)
Hi NN yes I do sleep loads, I love sleeping, don't do caffeine so I can sleep more than most ;D
Hope the wedding was fun. :)