Seeking the Truth for Jeremy Bamber

[Nickos]

Hi Nickos,,don't you think that Jeremy would have been battered and bruised as a result of a skirmish with his father.? I don't think Jeremy would have come out of that farmhouse unscathed with everyone having a go at him. Jeremy back then at 24 didn't look to me as though he could have dodged any blows coming forthwith.

Hi Lookout, not necessarily. Nevill may have just held on to the gun. JB being more powerful threw him off and then hit him with the rifle. This was a one way tussel.

What was JB's height and weight at the time - at 24 he would have been (and looked) relatively fit.

[Jane]

Hi Lookout, not necessarily. Nevill may have just held on to the gun. JB being more powerful threw him off and then hit him with the rifle. This was a one way tussel.

What was JB's height and weight at the time - at 24 he would have been (and looked) relatively fit.

What would June and Sheila have been doing whilst this was going on?

[grahameb]

Hi Lookout, not necessarily. Nevill may have just held on to the gun. JB being more powerful threw him off and then hit him with the rifle. This was a one way tussel.

What was JB's height and weight at the time - at 24 he would have been (and looked) relatively fit.

Nick do you remember how tall Sheila was? I don't know personally. That's why I'm asking.

[Jane]

Nick do you remember how tall Sheila was? I don't know personally. That's why I'm asking.

Grahame, she must have been AT LEAST 5'8" to be a model.

[maggie]

Hi Lookout, not necessarily. Nevill may have just held on to the gun. JB being more powerful threw him off and then hit him with the rifle. This was a one way tussel.

What was JB's height and weight at the time - at 24 he would have been (and looked) relatively fit.

Sorry Nickos but cannot agree that JB was more powerful than a 6'4" Nevile..  Jeremy is nowhere near as tall as Neville and looks pretty lightweight.  I guess he must have been reasonably fit due to his physical farm work but Neville had a huge advantage I would think?

[lookout]

Hi Lookout, not necessarily. Nevill may have just held on to the gun. JB being more powerful threw him off and then hit him with the rifle. This was a one way tussel.

What was JB's height and weight at the time - at 24 he would have been (and looked) relatively fit.

Hi Nickos,,I rather felt that Jeremy was all brain and no brawn as regards a stand-up fight. No disrespects to Jeremy,but I don't think he could have knocked the skin off a rice pudding. He'd never once shown himself to be aggressive,or give any indication that he could " handle himself " if the opportunity ever arose.

It's one thing looking fit,,but never judge a book by its cover. Giant Haystacks was a big fit man,,,but had the softest of centres.

[maggie]

Grahame, she must have been AT LEAST 5'8" to be a model.

Hi april, she was 5'7 1/2" which is just under the required 5'8" so she barely scraped in but she was also barely a model imo. 
It's true she was very light as well so must have been very slender. 
I would agree totally that in normal life a person of Sheila's build would not be able to fight against Jeremy, she just simply did not have the muscle strength or the body weight.
However, paranoid schizophrenic women much shorter and lighter than Sheila become uncontrollably strong during a psychotic episode. 
That was the reason for locked wards and straight jackets it could take up to 4 adults to gain control of such a woman.  We don't like to think about it but that was the reason for such institutions before drugs began to control symptoms.

[Nickos]

What would June and Sheila have been doing whilst this was going on?

I've already given this a go   

[Nickos]

Sorry Nickos but cannot agree that JB was more powerful than a 6'4" Nevile..  Jeremy is nowhere near as tall as Neville and looks pretty lightweight.  I guess he must have been reasonably fit due to his physical farm work but Neville had a huge advantage I would think?

So you belive Sheila was more powerful than JB and Nevill? and that it's OK for Sheila to have overpowered Nevill, but not JB.

[maggie]

So you belive Sheila was more powerful than JB and Nevill? and that it's OK for Sheila to have overpowered Nevill, but not JB.

If Sheila was in a state of psychosis yes.
I know you are trying to make me look foolish Nickos but it is an accumulation of events which give me cause to believe this, not just am idea plucked out of the air.

[lookout]

Hi april, she was 5'7 1/2" which is just under the required 5'8" so she barely scraped in but she was also barely a model imo. 
It's true she was very light as well so must have been very slender. 
I would agree totally that in normal life a person of Sheila's build would not be able to fight against Jeremy, she just simply did not have the muscle strength or the body weight.
However, paranoid schizophrenic women much shorter and lighter than Sheila become uncontrollably strong during a psychotic episode. 
That was the reason for locked wards and straight jackets it could take up to 4 adults to gain control of such a woman.  We don't like to think about it but that was the reason for such institutions before drugs began to control symptoms.

Hi Maggie,,we both know the strengths of paranoid schizophrenics,,,regardless of height and body size.
They are as strong as oxes,,and during psychotic episodes,,their strength and power has got to be seen to be believed. They could probably tear a telephone directory,no problem.
This is why they're medicated to the hilt,poor souls,,,they have to be otherwise they ARE dangerous.
When my daughter did a stint in a home for such patients,,she had to lock herself in a linen cupboard because a patient had got hold of a knife from the kitchen,and had to summon the police as he was jabbing at the door. The guy in question had been a druggie and was eaten away by the use of them,,in other words,,he was thin and wizened,,but her being a big strong girl was no match for him.

[Jane]

So you belive Sheila was more powerful than JB and Nevill? and that it's OK for Sheila to have overpowered Nevill, but not JB.

Nickos, I have the impression that because you appear not to understand what is a psychotic episode is and does you're leaving it out of the equation.

[maggie]

Hi Maggie,,we both know the strengths of paranoid schizophrenics,,,regardless of height and body size.
They are as strong as oxes,,and during psychotic episodes,,their strength and power has got to be seen to be believed. They could probably tear a telephone directory,no problem.
This is why they're medicated to the hilt,poor souls,,,they have to be otherwise they ARE dangerous.
When my daughter did a stint in a home for such patients,,she had to lock herself in a linen cupboard because a patient had got hold of a knife from the kitchen,and had to summon the police as he was jabbing at the door. The guy in question had been a druggie and was eaten away by the use of them,,in other words,,he was thin and wizened,,but her being a big strong girl was no match for him.

I agree lookout, you cannot compare like with like, it is a totally different situation.

I would never claim Sheila or actually any woman stands much chance defending themselves against a determined man it's about sheer muscle density and body weight and nothing to do with lack of courage I am 5'8" and know I could never win a physical fight with a man in a normal situation but that is a different argument altogether. 

[susan]

Hello Maggie maybe if you were holding a loaded rifle you would overcome any man.  At the onset do not think Ralph thought Sheila would use the rifle

[lookout]

Hello Maggie maybe if you were holding a loaded rifle you would overcome any man.  At the onset do not think Ralph thought Sheila would use the rifle

Under normal conditions,,you could certainly muster up the strength if confronted,,particularly if you were in charge of a rifle as well,,so you have to imagine that these WEREN'T normal circumstances,,and the shooter happened to be abnormally powerful due to a psychiatric illness,so was more than able to overpower everyone concerned. Her only injury being a broken toe-nail and fingernail due to the nature of her actions.