Hi Patti,
My post was based on what I believe, not on fact, but I accept your comments.
I do believe JB (or someone known to JB!?) killed them all.
Its quite possible....Care to elaborate on that point?
To me there is still at least a possibility the murders were carried out by a third party, but with JB’s knowledge due to the made up “phone call from Nevill”.
I can see there are issues with the whole JB guilty story e.g. JB’s reasonably calm position with the police that night. I’m not convinced with the use of June’s Bicycle to get to and from WHF, or how JB got in and out of WHF that night (but I guess the Jury were okay with these aspects)
However; I am convinced the murders were carried out by a man. I believe a lot of JB’s story is made up, and I believe the murders were quite clinically carried out by someone with physical strength and efficient with the gun (not Sheila).
I have been thinking about how Nat Fraser was found guilty (twice) and yet he was with his delivery driver the day his wife disappeared (never to be seen again). The conclusion by the Jury was that Nat Fraser was complicit in his wife’s murder and therefore guilty (without a body and a murder weapon).
I believe that JB either carried out the murders, or was complicit in the murders, and therefore as guilty as if he had carried them out himself.
I don’t believe JM made up the hit man story. I believe JB did say this to her and gave her a name (there was no reason for JM to make this up), especially as the hit man name JB gave her turned out be the wrong name – duped by JB!
The point being is was there any truth in what JB said to JM in respect of a hit man.
The "closed" situation with the WHF case is that both Prosecution and Defence accepted it was either JB or SC.
I appreciate the hit man point has been covered many times - and to no avail, but it niggles me.
Hi Nikos
Thank you for taking time out to reply to me.
Well, it niggles me too. There is a small percentage of me that thinks that a third party could be involved.
We have Jeremy, the heir to the Bamber fortune after the tragedies.
we have Julie the jilted girlfriend
We have Matthew who claimed to be a mercenary
We have Brett Collins the friend of Jeremy's from New Zealand
Jeremy is left with a fortune with heavy death duties to pay, a farm to run and funerals to pay for.
He is convicted of murdering 5 members of his family some 8 weeks after the murders. During this time according to Julie he never confesses to her that he killed his family. He said " I didn't do it, I couldn't have done it, Matthew did it. He told Sheila to lay down on the bed and shoot herself" He told her that he had thought about how to do it whilst on his tractor all day and when he telephone her he told her "Tonight's the night" to which she replied "go back to bed" She claimed to have brought him the tablets that she had got from her doctor, she said " I only took one they were too big" A week later she claims she took them to Jeremy's...why she took them there remains a mystery. But, she later
implied that Jeremy might have used them on rats for he had told her that he had sedated rats, then strangled them. So we have Jeremy the murderer, opps sorry the man that arranged the murder's telling his girlfriend all about the crime he was involved in; knowing that at any time Julie could go to the police or share this information with her friends.
Julie a young 20 year old in love with the man who had just inherited a fortune. She finds out he is seeing another woman, and the pain is very hard to bare. She hates him for what he has DONE TO HER and is crippled with emotion. But, lets step back a bit and reveal a little bit of what she was like. She sold drugs at collage. She is involved in a burglary at the caravan park. She is then involved with a cheque book fraud. Of course she could have refused to do all of those things, yet she laid the blame at Jeremy's door. No one forced her to do anything, it was her choice. After the murders Julie was the one that volunteered to view the bodies at the mortuary. She was the one that accompanied Jeremy and Brett on the holiday to Amsterdam. She was the one that went out for luxury meals and drank champaign on the night of the funerals. During this time Julie became jealous of Brett, she wasn't getting the right attention so she had argued with Jeremy about it. It was clear that she disliked Brett, yet she still went ahead with the holiday to Amsterdam...and went to night clubs and restaurants in his company. Julie was feeling very pushed out by this time. If we despise Jeremy for doing those things then we must also think the same about Julie. Jeremy was his clever old self in those days and, most arrogant at this stage in his life. He was taking drugs and had no care for anything or anybody. A solitary time. Yet, he had moments of lapse where he went quiet and was not in a laughable mood according to the manager at one bar they frequented at that time. Even on the night of the night of the funeral the manager was quite clear in his statement that Jeremy was not him self and that the others were goading him to laugh, but there were no smiles....Jeremy moved from their company and started chatting to the manager who had no idea at this stage who Jeremy was....until Jeremy told him on the night.....Jeremy had to gather money together for death duties and had a major responsibility bestowed on him at the age of 24 and he was slowly becoming a meal ticket for those around him and was realising it. But, during all this time Julie was being told by Jeremy of his part in the murders and he had told her that the killer "had not been paid yet" So then we veer ahead to Julie in her final moments when she overhears a call from one of Jeremy's ex lovers and he is arranging to meet up with her. Jeremy must have been sick and tired of Julie being jealous of Brett and wanted to get out of her clutches, he had enough. He had provided her with everything he could, but there lacked an understanding between them. The spit was inevitable, but what would Jeremy do about the things that he had told her? Jeremy did nothing did he. Julie never said he had threatened her to keep her mouth shut. If had had been Julie I would have feared for my life, thinking I would be the next one to be murdered....But, no she asked him to help her move into her new flat and after all that had been said, she turned yet again to the man she claimed to have murdered 5 members of her family for help. When Julie reached 21 he gave her the money he had promised her which enabled her to go on the holiday that she had dreamed of going with her friend, without that money she could not have gone, yet again she excepted his money and help knowing what she knew. Meanwhile he was seeing another woman...So what does Julie do? She is so jealous and still loves him and with the thought, well If I can't have you, no one else will....She confides in a friend and tells a remarkable story about what he had told to her. Unsure of whether he was joking or not, she is pressured by her friend and goes to the police with her story 6 weeks after the murders.... We have recently seen the documents surrounding the visit to the bank with Julie and SB...they both deny any police involvement that day. The bank manager however, disagrees and states quite clearly that a plain clothes officer attended the bank with the girls and that 1 or 2 weeks later that same officer returned and took a statement...Who is lying?....Sadly Dovey the bank managers 1985/6 statement was destroyed in 1996...this evidence is in the 2002 submissions and disclosed by the COA.
Matthew the mercenary was arrested, his car was enpounded. Essex police found nothing to connect this man to any crimes. He even had an air tight alibi. Well, not so air tight. He was not with his wife, but another woman whom he later marries. The mercenary stories are then revealed to be fake, so here we have another liar....However, Jeremy admitted that Matthew had been to his cottage on several occasions and that he had taken him to the farm.
Brett. Well here we have a man whom Jeremy had made friends with during his stay in New Zealand and who is at the moment banned from keeping a licence for a car till 2015. Brett had been in England prior to and after the murders. He had also visited the farm on several occasions. Brett also had an air tight alibi he was in Greece at the time of the murders, but had travelled back to the UK and stayed with Jeremy until his arrest. I do not know how the police checked his alibi I have never seen any documents that state what actions the police took. Brett along with Matthew were fingerprinted and anything to do with Brett was destroyed in 1996....I have seen that documented and I have a copy should you wish to see it.
Sorry this is so long and drawn out...but my point is that there is not one scrap of evidence to prove a third party and there never will be because EP destroyed any evidence which could prove otherwise. However, this does not mean its not possible anything is possible......I will leave you with another comment from Julie " Jeremy told me to tell truth"
Patti.......I haven't addressed all what you have said and I apologise for that.
