Author Topic: Seeking the Truth for Jeremy Bamber  (Read 140265 times)

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Offline Roch

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Re: Seeking the Truth for Jeremy Bamber
« Reply #45 on: September 07, 2013, 10:31:AM »
Hi Roch nice to see you  ;)

As I understand it Davidson's job was to allocate the labels and exhibit numbers.  I am of the belief that the it was changed due to the fact that Jones was not the one that originally found the silencer. It was therefore changed to DB/1 meaning that D. Boutflour had found it, but because these initials were incorrect they changed it again to DRB/1 which was correct....Am I wrong???????  :-[ ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D I need to know.... ;D ;D

Patti,I believe there were two. I think the "more" came into play when EP asked the relatives to hand in their Parker Hale silencers.

I believe EP already had a silencer in their possession which didn't throw up any evidence.I also don't believe that EP took possession of a silencer from the relatives until 11th September. As Caroline has pointed out previously,this 2nd silencer miraculously contained ALL of the damning evidence needed to put Jeremy in the frame for the crime. Blood,paint,a scratch,a hair etc. I believe the two silencers were then merged. Thanks to testing by members of this forum,we now know that blood in the form of  a "blob of jam" couldn't survive for 3 days after the murders,let alone over a month!

Hi Patti and Tyler.

I think the allegation document when read through carefully, is an excellent source regarding the silencer discrepancies.  This video doesn't go in to that kind of detail but it is interesting nonetheless:

 
Btw, thanks to Caroline for technical advice!

Online lookout

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Re: Seeking the Truth for Jeremy Bamber
« Reply #46 on: September 07, 2013, 10:47:AM »
And it was the judge at the trial who stressed that a moderator was in situ,,therefore convincing the jury that Jeremy was the killer. Which is only natural that you'd listen to the judges summing up,,,because no other information regarding other moderators was given. This is the only thing that got Jeremy convicted,for there was nothing else.

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Re: Seeking the Truth for Jeremy Bamber
« Reply #47 on: September 07, 2013, 11:30:AM »
Without covering more ground ( as there's no more to cover ) mistakes can easily be made,,such as the sighting of two people in the kitchen. When police get called out to somewhere where they've never been to,,in the dead of night,not certain what they're going to find,,it's disorientating to enter a strange house and until they get their " bearings ",will be unfamiliar to its surrounds.
What the officer saw which was what he thought was an old woman,,was Neville. An easy mistake when it's a male with a good head of hair. Sheila would have been more recognisable with dark hair. So I personally think we can discount the fact that Sheila was in the kitchen at that particular time.

The " trick of light " was more feasible as being a human form.Beside the fact that the raid team were called out after the " sighting ",,it makes more sense that it was Sheila upstairs as that's where she was found,latterly.
Again,,I don't think she injured herself by self-infliction of that first shot to her neck. I'm sceptical about the second one too. If Sheila had fired that first shot to her neck,,it would have been a contact shot which would have killed her.How could you miss at such close quarters.?
The second shot could possibly have been administered by herself,as it was more of a contact wound,,which is why it's always puzzled me why the first shot ( which was supposed to have been a contact one ) didn't eventually kill her as the second one did. So my belief is that the first shot was done from two or three feet away,,and not by her hand.

As much as I've " cursed " the relatives,, again,,it's not their faults that they've been misled by the police,,which then has a knock-on effect spreading to the public,then the media.
Because the Bambers as a family kept everything to themselves,,including Sheilas' illness,,the relatives weren't to know what she was actually capable of,,or her rapidly impairing mental health,,and at times,,very odd behaviour,,,they would naturally assume that Jeremy was using Sheilas' illness as a means of covering up for his guilt.

The actual investigation was abysmal,,which even the "antis' " would have to admit,,also some of the officers concerned,,because " Taff " Jones had already stated four murders and a suicide,,but we don't know why he ever came to that conclusion,,and the poor guy had a fatal accident before he was thoroughly questioned on his decision,,,which really left everyone concerned in mid-air. Dangerous,,because you begin to question whether he was right or not and the theories start,,the what-ifs,,and I- wonders,,which is what has happened and because of the complexities of differing silencers,etc,,,which the jury wouldn't have had a clue about,,they naturally followed what the judge had to say,,which I think we all would have done under the same circumstances.

Sadly for Jeremy,,so much information wasn't released by EP to the defence,,and still remains to be withheld even after all these years which I find thoroughly unacceptable and have to ask myself why.
Also whatever is held under the PII should come to light,,if what those who say Jeremy should die in prison,,,so what difference will it make if he's got nothing to lose.?

Offline Patti

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Re: Seeking the Truth for Jeremy Bamber
« Reply #48 on: September 07, 2013, 11:46:AM »
Hi Patti and Tyler.

I think the allegation document when read through carefully, is an excellent source regarding the silencer discrepancies.  This video doesn't go in to that kind of detail but it is interesting nonetheless:

 <iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/n7kR3UJeWBo?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Btw, thanks to Caroline for technical advice!
Hi Patti and Tyler.

I think the allegation document when read through carefully, is an excellent source regarding the silencer discrepancies.  This video doesn't go in to that kind of detail but it is interesting nonetheless:

 <iframe width=\"420\" height=\"315\" src=\"//www.youtube.com/embed/n7kR3UJeWBo?rel=0\" frameborder=\"0\" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Btw, thanks to Caroline for technical advice!

Thank you for that Roch  :D I had seen it before and could not digest then and still I'm unable to digest it all. I will have to play it over and over again.  Maybe I have a mental block with it, if that is possible...in that I find the scratch marks under the Aga a red herring.

I was sat at the table next to Cook and Jones when they were taking a sample of paint from underneath the mantle with a penknife on the 14th August 1985.  I am not sure if it was Cook or Jones that took the sample, they might have helped each other.  They put a yellow/orange sticker over were they had taken the sample from.  I must point out to you at this stage I had not realised what was under the mantle. 

This needs tearing to pieces.....

So the police just happen to place a yellow sticker under the AGA near to the marks that were classed as being made with the silencer. 

Of all the space under the Aga they happen to choose that space where the said marks were made with the silencer.....

Did it never occur to AE when she saw those marks that those marks could have been made by those taking the sample? 

Did it never occur to her that it was strange that the police didn't notice these marks when they were taking the sample? 

Did it not occur the defense that this could have been the case and that these so called marks were made by the slip of the penknife.

Did they never not notice that the hand towels that were hanging over the front of the Aga were not disturbed...and fell as neatly as they were placed on it......

Oh dear how blind were the police on that day?  To say that the purpose of taking the sample was because they wanted to link it to the silencer.........There were no marks were they, because if they were, they would have noticed them when they took the sample....4 eyes were bring used on the 14th of August.....They themselves could have said hey there are marks under here, lets get them photographed....well they did didn't they along with the yellow sticker they had placed there some week later.....what a sham.... :-\ :-\ :-\ >:(
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« Last Edit: August 26, 2013, 05:13:PM by Patti »

Offline Patti

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Re: Seeking the Truth for Jeremy Bamber
« Reply #49 on: September 07, 2013, 11:50:AM »
Without covering more ground ( as there's no more to cover ) mistakes can easily be made,,such as the sighting of two people in the kitchen. When police get called out to somewhere where they've never been to,,in the dead of night,not certain what they're going to find,,it's disorientating to enter a strange house and until they get their " bearings ",will be unfamiliar to its surrounds.
What the officer saw which was what he thought was an old woman,,was Neville. An easy mistake when it's a male with a good head of hair. Sheila would have been more recognisable with dark hair. So I personally think we can discount the fact that Sheila was in the kitchen at that particular time.

The " trick of light " was more feasible as being a human form.Beside the fact that the raid team were called out after the " sighting ",,it makes more sense that it was Sheila upstairs as that's where she was found,latterly.
Again,,I don't think she injured herself by self-infliction of that first shot to her neck. I'm sceptical about the second one too. If Sheila had fired that first shot to her neck,,it would have been a contact shot which would have killed her.How could you miss at such close quarters.?
The second shot could possibly have been administered by herself,as it was more of a contact wound,,which is why it's always puzzled me why the first shot ( which was supposed to have been a contact one ) didn't eventually kill her as the second one did. So my belief is that the first shot was done from two or three feet away,,and not by her hand.

As much as I've " cursed " the relatives,, again,,it's not their faults that they've been misled by the police,,which then has a knock-on effect spreading to the public,then the media.
Because the Bambers as a family kept everything to themselves,,including Sheilas' illness,,the relatives weren't to know what she was actually capable of,,or her rapidly impairing mental health,,and at times,,very odd behaviour,,,they would naturally assume that Jeremy was using Sheilas' illness as a means of covering up for his guilt.

The actual investigation was abysmal,,which even the "antis' " would have to admit,,also some of the officers concerned,,because " Taff " Jones had already stated four murders and a suicide,,but we don't know why he ever came to that conclusion,,and the poor guy had a fatal accident before he was thoroughly questioned on his decision,,,which really left everyone concerned in mid-air. Dangerous,,because you begin to question whether he was right or not and the theories start,,the what-ifs,,and I- wonders,,which is what has happened and because of the complexities of differing silencers,etc,,,which the jury wouldn't have had a clue about,,they naturally followed what the judge had to say,,which I think we all would have done under the same circumstances.

Sadly for Jeremy,,so much information wasn't released by EP to the defence,,and still remains to be withheld even after all these years which I find thoroughly unacceptable and have to ask myself why.
Also whatever is held under the PII should come to light,,if what those who say Jeremy should die in prison,,,so what difference will it make if he's got nothing to lose.?

Brilliant post Lookout...:)

Regarding the shots to Sheila, both were contact/close shots, this was determined by Vanezes....and Fletcher.....

Must dash...................................... ;D ;D ;D ;D

Offline tyler

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Re: Seeking the Truth for Jeremy Bamber
« Reply #50 on: September 07, 2013, 12:29:PM »
Lookout, I can agree with you how Nevill could have been mistaken for a woman,due to his long hair. I can understand the mix up in the log re; one female,one male. But how on earth could Nevill be described as a murder AND a suicide??

Offline Jane

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Re: Seeking the Truth for Jeremy Bamber
« Reply #51 on: September 07, 2013, 12:35:PM »
Lookout, I can agree with you how Nevill could have been mistaken for a woman,due to his long hair. I can understand the mix up in the log re; one female,one male. But how on earth could Nevill be described as a murder AND a suicide??



Tyler, it's really difficult to remember how the information was handed out, but I seem to think that for several hours it was thought, according to the media of the day, that it was A murder and A suicide, then followed the shock of learning how many more bodies had been found.

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Re: Seeking the Truth for Jeremy Bamber
« Reply #52 on: September 07, 2013, 12:38:PM »
Lookout, I can agree with you how Nevill could have been mistaken for a woman,due to his long hair. I can understand the mix up in the log re; one female,one male. But how on earth could Nevill be described as a murder AND a suicide??



Tyler,,this 4 murders and a suicide will never be fully known,,nor the reason that " Taff " Jones arrived at his conclusion without any real investigation.

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Re: Seeking the Truth for Jeremy Bamber
« Reply #53 on: September 07, 2013, 12:43:PM »


Tyler,,this 4 murders and a suicide will never be fully known,,nor the reason that " Taff " Jones arrived at his conclusion without any real investigation.



It's somewhat puzzling as to how it was acertained without a " full " investigation. Of course this is where the suspicions came from,,of which you can't really blame anyone for having been suspicious at such a " rash " decision over something on this scale. Maybe his notes may have contained something,I don't know,,but this is probably a reason why they were " taken ".

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Re: Seeking the Truth for Jeremy Bamber
« Reply #54 on: September 07, 2013, 12:45:PM »
Which brings you right back to the logical conclusion., It was either Sheila or Jeremy,,as that's how things have been for years and remain that way,to date,,without proof either way.

Offline tyler

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Re: Seeking the Truth for Jeremy Bamber
« Reply #55 on: September 07, 2013, 12:46:PM »
I'm sorry but I don't believe EP have been truthful as per the circumstances of the raid. We are expected to believe these well trained officers saw Sheila's body and concluded she had died in the way we see depicted in the photographs? Her body has clearly been staged! Yet Taff Jones,a highly experienced policeman was convinced it was suicide and murders and later an investigation by Kineally concludes that "the evidence points to Sheila as having been responsible for the murders". What evidence? There must have been some then that they later covered up? It must be remembered that ALL of the officers that were suspicious of Jeremy,only saw Sheila's body as it is depicted in the crime scene photos. By this time her body had clearly been staged. Is it any wonder they were suspicious?!! Clearly Stan Jones and co were not privy to whatever had occurred PRIOR to him entering whf. Imo.

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Re: Seeking the Truth for Jeremy Bamber
« Reply #56 on: September 07, 2013, 12:46:PM »
Everything else is theory and supposition.

Offline tyler

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Re: Seeking the Truth for Jeremy Bamber
« Reply #57 on: September 07, 2013, 12:50:PM »
April,but this wasn't from the media,this is stated in the log. One male,one female. A murder and a suicide and then goes on to say that a police surgeon has been called etc.

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Re: Seeking the Truth for Jeremy Bamber
« Reply #58 on: September 07, 2013, 12:55:PM »
I'm sorry but I don't believe EP have been truthful as per the circumstances of the raid. We are expected to believe these well trained officers saw Sheila's body and concluded she had died in the way we see depicted in the photographs? Her body has clearly been staged! Yet Taff Jones,a highly experienced policeman was convinced it was suicide and murders and later an investigation by Kineally concludes that "the evidence points to Sheila as having been responsible for the murders". What evidence? There must have been some then that they later covered up? It must be remembered that ALL of the officers that were suspicious of Jeremy,only saw Sheila's body as it is depicted in the crime scene photos. By this time her body had clearly been staged. Is it any wonder they were suspicious?!! Clearly Stan Jones and co were not privy to whatever had occurred PRIOR to him entering whf. Imo.





Yes,tyler,,I'm well aware of EP and their " inconsistencies ",,but 28 years have gone-------------------and nothing. Even their incompetencies haven't been brought into play at all and nobody has,,or is admitting responsibility for the way the " investigation " was conducted. Why,,after all these years hasn't one honest soul come forward.?

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Re: Seeking the Truth for Jeremy Bamber
« Reply #59 on: September 07, 2013, 01:00:PM »
Why won't anyone come forward,,knowing that it's an MOJ,,and also with the knowledge that firstly it could release Jeremy,,and secondly,there's every chance of a reward.? Somebody's holding back,,and if it was anyone concerned with the actual case,they've certainly got nothing to lose,,but everything to gain.