No financial motive for shootings...

[nugnug]

he loathed shilea he loathed jeremys father as well.

seems like he loathed most people and most people loathed him.

[mike tesko]

To be pondered, is if Jeremy had said to Robert Boutflour, "I could quite easily kill my fucking parents", or words to that effect, why Boutflour senior didn't draw these comments to the attention of Ralph and June, and to other members of his family...

Nor did he bring this to the attention of the police immediateky upon learning about Ralph, June, Sheila and the boys being shot, with Jeremy raising the alarm - Boutflour senior waited until much later before seeking to introduce that gem...

It is much more likely in my opinion that Boutflour either made it all up, or that it was he himself who posed that question to Jeremy at some stage, "could you kill your parents, if you had to"? Or, "Did you kill your parents and the others"...

[Jane]

Something has been triggered in my mind thanks to a comment made by nugs. It's to do with
 PRIMOGINATURE and the old laws ruling it which state that the firstborn gets the lion's share. Pam was the older sister, presumably married to the older brother in law and therefore had older biological children than the Bamber's adopted two, and yet it seems that the Bambers had seniority over the Boutflours, all decisions regarding the farm and what was attached to it, being Nevill's. I think nugs is absolutely correct. I think RWB loathed ALL of them. According to the laws of primoginature, EVERYTHING should have belonged to him/HIS family and had it not been for two adopted children, this was how it would have been.

[susan]

Morning Mike,  hope you are well and is your wife.  I don't think for one moment Jeremy uttered these words I think it was made up by RB if a person had these feelings he/she would keep them to their selves I often make a statement "I could kill you" but it is just a figure of speech and should not be taken literally.

[susan]

Morning april  excellent post and I think you and Nugs are right RB hated the whole family, sadly.  A person filled with jealousy and hate are dangerous IMO.

[Jane]

Morning april  excellent post and I think you and Nugs are right RB hated the whole family, sadly.  A person filled with jealousy and hate are dangerous IMO.

Morning Mike,  hope you are well and is your wife.  I don't think for one moment Jeremy uttered these words I think it was made up by RB if a person had these feelings he/she would keep them to their selves I often make a statement "I could kill you" but it is just a figure of speech and should not be taken literally.

Susan, Good Morning We must remember that ALL these Stevisms are just soundbites plucked from the ether. If they were EVER said, there will undoubtedly be a background to them and they'll NOT necessarily have been said in the way they're made to appear. My own take on this particular soundbite is to ask if RWB EVER had a conversation with Jeremy which DIDN'T have an ulterior motive, so I'd suggest some kind of provocation on his part, of which Jeremy was probably aware. He was also probably aware that everything he said would be reported back to his father in distorted form and may have thought to say something to shock the spiteful old so and so, in the knowledge that his father would tell him what "Uncle Bobbie" said. He was certainly jealous and certainly dangerous.

[lookout]

Morning april  excellent post and I think you and Nugs are right RB hated the whole family, sadly.  A person filled with jealousy and hate are dangerous IMO.

Hi Susan,,,and whatever RWB said about the Bambers,would have been instilled in all the offshoots of his immediate family and others who listened to the " patriarch ". This is how they lived their lives,forever wondering what was going on in the Bamber household. I bet there wasn't a day that went by for what the subject didn't come up.
Sad to say,,but it must have been a relief after what had happened,as it seemed as though their futures were cut and dried with Jeremy out of the way. This is the feeling I get.

[susan]

Hi lookout  sadly, I get the same feeling as well

[lookout]

We can't all be wrong. 

[maggie]

Hi Susan,,,and whatever RWB said about the Bambers,would have been instilled in all the offshoots of his immediate family and others who listened to the " patriarch ". This is how they lived their lives,forever wondering what was going on in the Bamber household. I bet there wasn't a day that went by for what the subject didn't come up.
Sad to say,,but it must have been a relief after what had happened,as it seemed as though their futures were cut and dried with Jeremy out of the way. This is the feeling I get.

Hi Susie/lookout, I always wonder about Pamela Boutflour and how she fitted into the picture. 

We know RWB controlled his children and expected to be obeyed at all times, even when they were grown ups.  We hear very little from Pamela after the deaths, just her witness statement about the telephone call.  She's quoted somewhere wondering how Jeremy is coping with prison, I think. As June's sister she was possibly emotionally closer to the Bambers than the rest of them. 

I do wonder if she believed Jeremy was guilty, if she has doubts. One would expect June confided in her about family dynamics etc., at least in general terms and she would have had more insight.

Somehow I get the impression she kept quiet because RWB demanded complete family agreement and loyalty on the subject and what he said went. 

I wonder if Pamela was bullied by this man who seemed to be a most disagreeable character.  June and Pamela had the same upbringing, June seemed to struggle with showing emotions and generally coped badly with the pressures of life, so what about Pamela? We have no idea if she was a strong minded woman like June or a gentler more easily controlled personality.
Think I'm rambling  but do wonder what Pamela really knows or believes. ??

[lookout]

I certainly think that Pamela was more " human ",Maggie. Maybe kept her thoughts to herself for the most part in case she rocked the boat. A person like RWB was, would have made her timid I would have thought,,as rightly or wrongly,his word was gospel at all times and there was no room for discussion.

[lookout]

Because we now know that Sheila was the last person to die inside WHF,,why didn't she summon help much sooner if she herself knew that she wasn't going to be mowed down imminently.? Sheila had ample time to ring up the services.. If Jeremy had committed the crime,,they'd have all been wiped out in one fell swoop together,,,exactly where they lay-------------in bed..
Not in this case where one person was still obviously wandering around.
Sheila at least could/should have thought about her children. There were plenty of hiding places within the farmhouse where she could have kept the children safe until help arrived.

I don't believe for one minute that the children didn't wake up. I've read that they were both on the landing at one point,,then were taken to bed,,probably told to close their eyes and that was it.
The dog yapping,Sheila screeching,the rifle going off,would have wakened the dead.
Anyone going into the farmhouse with the intention of murder would first have got rid of the dog,,I don't care what anyone says,,and anyone wakened at that hour with the dog barking,would have rang for help. You would yourself.

[nugnug]

the relatives seemed to make a big of jeremys parentege wich is strange i think and it leads me to belive that one of them was illgimate themselves.

[Lugg]

To be pondered, is if Jeremy had said to Robert Boutflour, "I could quite easily kill my fucking parents", or words to that effect, why Boutflour senior didn't draw these comments to the attention of Ralph and June, and to other members of his family...

Nor did he bring this to the attention of the police immediateky upon learning about Ralph, June, Sheila and the boys being shot, with Jeremy raising the alarm - Boutflour senior waited until much later before seeking to introduce that gem...

It is much more likely in my opinion that Boutflour either made it all up, or that it was he himself who posed that question to Jeremy at some stage, "could you kill your parents, if you had to"? Or, "Did you kill your parents and the others"...

More's the question is why would he say such a thing to his uncle anyway, and if he did what was the context?

[Jane]

More's the question is why would he say such a thing to his uncle anyway, and if he did what was the context?

Lugg, my suggestion that he was being provoked comes from RWB's description of the SAID conversation in which I THINK RWB was talking to Jeremy about security at the caravan park. He apparently asked Jeremy what he'd do if he discovered an intruder and Jeremy said that if he had a gun he'd shoot. I think at this point RWB challenged him by suggesting he's be too scared which Jeremy SUPPOSEDLY countered with that phrase we've all come to know so well. Strangely, there has been no one to corroborate the conversation.