ECHR ..... now - Killers' life terms 'breached their human rights'

[Steve_uk]

Hi Steve_uk

What relevance does this have to murders?  Where's your proof it was ever said?  Why would JB be singled out?  In all likelihood there would have been more obvious targets: geeks/nerds, socially awkward, physically different, learning difficulties?  Do you think the likes of Steve Jobs and Michael Gove, also adoptees and similar age to JB, suffered similar abuse?  There were literally millions of infant adoptions in English speaking countries during so called baby scoop era:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baby_Scoop_Era

As an adoptee, and having studied the subject in depth, I'm unaware of adopted children being singled out at school and labelled a 'bastard'.  Are you able to provide any evidence in general terms and pertinent to JB?

I put it to you Steve_uk that the labelling of JB as a bastard was nothing more than a figment of RB's warped mind.

I wonder why it would come from two separate sources,or are you suggesting that Robert Boutflour was interviewed by Roger Wilkes to provide material for his book.

[maggie]

I wonder why it would come from two separate sources,or are you suggesting that Robert Boutflour was interviewed by Roger Wilkes to provide material for his book.

It's well known that the extended family were interviewed by Wilkes, so not too hard to guess what the source was.

[killingeve]

Hi Steve, that's not structly true as far as I can make out. 
Your friend Wilkes actually states that Jeremy's first few years at Gresham were difficult as they were no doubt for any other young child,.  He also mentions the 'bastard' event but according to him Jeremy put all that behind him and enjoyed the rest of his time at the school.
You aren't really telling the whole story imo.

Hi Maggie

Yes I seem to recall JB recounting fond memories of cycling around the Norfolk countryside with two pals.  Along with the slipper (a one off) for bunking off to watch a Suzi Quattro concert 

[killingeve]

I wonder why it would come from two separate sources,or are you suggesting that Robert Boutflour was interviewed by Roger Wilkes to provide material for his book.

    I find it difficult to see how this escaped your attn.    Word for word...

[Steve_uk]

I think there was a lot of goodwill from Nevill with him not being the natural father and I don't see Jeremy had any cause for complaint as was the case with David Bain and his father.

[maggie]

Hi Maggie

Yes I seem to recall JB recounting fond memories of cycling around the Norfolk countryside with two pals.  Along with the slipper (a one off) for bunking off to watch a Suzi Quattro concert 

Yes, and the girls, all sounds like pretty normal adolescent school days. 
Lucky he did have some fun and travel NN, at least he saw something of life before he was locked up.

[Steve_uk]

Yes, and the girls, all sounds like pretty normal adolescent school days. 
Lucky he did have some fun and travel NN, at least he saw something of life before he was locked up.

Did Nicholas and Daniel see "something of life" before they were eternally locked up in their gravestone? Looking at the subject of this thread there is surely a balance to be struck between the human rights of victims who no longer have any human rights whatsoever and the human rights of the person who killed them yet who is left behind.

[maggie]

Did Nicholas and Daniel see "something of life" before they were eternally locked up in their gravestone? Looking at the subject of this thread there is surely a balance to be struck between the human rights of victims who no longer have any human rights whatsoever and the human rights of the person who killed them yet who is left behind.

What about the human rights of a man who has pleaded his innocence for 28 years, what about them Steve?  Many could argue that people like Jeremy Bamber have a human right to have their cases properly looked at with all documents and photographs released and everything out in the open.
 
It is hypocritical to argue for human rights for some and not for all, we are supposed to be a civilised country.  You do NOT know the truth anymore than anyone else, you have chosen a narrow opinion and stick to it like glue.  While that is your human right it is also Jeremy's to argue his case imo.

[Steve_uk]

What about the human rights of a man who has pleaded his innocence for 28 years, what about them Steve?  Many could argue that people like Jeremy Bamber have a human right to have their cases properly looked at with all documents and photographs released and everything out in the open.
 
It is hypocritical to argue for human rights for some and not for all, we are supposed to be a civilised country.  You do NOT know the truth anymore than anyone else, you have chosen a narrow opinion and stick to it like glue.  While that is your human right it is also Jeremy's to argue his case imo.

I can only surmise that the documents which successive Home Secretaries must have seen and who have all adjudged not to have a material outcome to the case have been kept back either through public decency(for example photographs of the twins' injuries) or through confidentiality which might compromise the safety of the existing relatives who have behaved with dignity at every turn.

[maggie]

Did Nicholas and Daniel see "something of life" before they were eternally locked up in their gravestone? Looking at the subject of this thread there is surely a balance to be struck between the human rights of victims who no longer have any human rights whatsoever and the human rights of the person who killed them yet who is left behind.

Those two boys had a pretty insecure life whatever happened.  Sheila was ill and not fit to be in charge of them.  Fortunately, that was recognised eventually and Colin was given custody, which must have made life so much better for them. 
I would imagine the boy's drawings which give a glimpse of psychological stress were more to do with life with Sheila than anything to do with the very short times they spent at the farm.  I might add that is no disrespect for Sheila who was obviously really ill and unable to cope but more about the failure of support for her from Mental Health empliyees which may all be traced back to the closure of the large mental hospitals in the early to mid 1980s when there was massive neglect of schizophrenics abandoned on the streets.imo

[maggie]

I can only surmise that the documents which successive Home Secretaries must have seen and who have all adjudged not to have a material outcome to the case have been kept back either through public decency(for example photographs of the twins' injuries) or through confidentiality which might compromise the safety of the existing relatives who have behaved with dignity at every turn.

You cannot 'surmise' about a man's freedom Steve.  You simply do not know. imo

[Caroline R]

Did Nicholas and Daniel see "something of life" before they were eternally locked up in their gravestone? Looking at the subject of this thread there is surely a balance to be struck between the human rights of victims who no longer have any human rights whatsoever and the human rights of the person who killed them yet who is left behind.

Were not balancing the human rights of victims and killers!! HERE!!! On THIS board, we're balancing the human rights of someone we believe to be innocent with a sentence that should NEVER have been handed out!!

[killingeve]

I think there was a lot of goodwill from Nevill with him not being the natural father and I don't see Jeremy had any cause for complaint as was the case with David Bain and his father.

And so there should have been.  As part of an infertile couple he was lucky enough to adopt two beautiful and healthy new born babies.  The obvious question is what the hell went wrong?  The adopted daughter suffers mental illness and the adopted son ends up suffering the UK's worst ever MoJ for murdering his immediate adoptive family.  Oh yeah and didn't the adoptive mother suffer from mental illness too???!!!

[Caroline R]

I wonder why it would come from two separate sources,or are you suggesting that Robert Boutflour was interviewed by Roger Wilkes to provide material for his book.

He was!! Thought you'd read it??

[Steve_uk]

You can't catch schizophrenia from someone sneezing on you. Nevill and June may have made mistakes as he busied himself with the farm and June with the wider community but it wasn't their fault how their children turned out.