ECHR ..... now - Killers' life terms 'breached their human rights'

[nugnug]

Let's discuss human rights in the round,not just one side. Pamela lost a sister,David and Ann lost an aunt,Mabel Speakman lost a daughter and grandchildren..shock can kill old people..

as far as im concerned person who qualifies as a victim here is Coin cadfile.

as the eatons dident know the bamber family that well or even like them much how can they call themselves victims.

[Jane]

Let's discuss human rights in the round,not just one side. Pamela lost a sister,David and Ann lost an aunt,Mabel Speakman lost a daughter and grandchildren..shock can kill old people..

Good to see you back Steve Like Lugg, I would be interested to see how loudly you expound the above if it can be shown that Jeremy didn't do it, and like nug, I'm inclined to feel that Colin is the one who truly qualifies as victim. As for most of those connected to RWB, I imagine that any persons who extended the adopted family, were seen as chipping away large portions of what they believed to be rightfully theirs. I don't imagine that this was a "family" in the way that you may understand it. It was more of a "dynasty" in which jealousy and resentment abounded, borne out by RWB's "diary" in which a lifelong resentment of Jeremy is revealed and Ann's witness statement which reveals a total disinterest in her cousin how she actively sought to avoid her company.

[susan]

Morning april dear  I agree Colin was the true victim here as he lost his two little boys and although Sheila and he were estranged he would have still had feelings for her as the Mother of his children and who knows he may have had to live with some guilt.  I think it very sad the attitude the extended family had towards Jeremy because he was adopted and even as a boy great jealousy and resentment was shown towards him.  How can people be like that. I wonder had their  been no farms or money would they have felt the same.  It is my understanding Grannie Speakman was never told about the incident at WHF so the shock would not have killed her.

[Jane]

Morning april dear  I agree Colin was the true victim here as he lost his two little boys and although Sheila and he were estranged he would have still had feelings for her as the Mother of his children and who knows he may have had to live with some guilt.  I think it very sad the attitude the extended family had towards Jeremy because he was adopted and even as a boy great jealousy and resentment was shown towards him.  How can people be like that. I wonder had their  been no farms or money would they have felt the same.  It is my understanding Grannie Speakman was never told about the incident at WHF so the shock would not have killed her.

Susan, I will grant that Grannie was moving towards the end of her life but "frail" is not a word that those who knew her would have used to describe her, however, it's my understanding that she was told that "they were ALL dead" and that Jeremy's name wasn't mentioned. It's therefore reasonable to assume that after such ambiguity she imagined that Jeremy also was dead and adjusted her will accordingly.

[susan]

Hi april  thanks for that information I was not aware she was told they were ALL dead and therefore adjusted her will.

[campion]

Hi Forum, Is it of any relevance to have knowledge of whom was the EXecutor(s)  of Mabel Speakman's will, which was (for whatever reason), in Jeremy's favour? Who, then, may have been the Executor of this lady's Last Will and Testament, when she was in a nursing home, and beneficial to the Boutflour Family, drawn up shortly before she passed away? Jeremy, of course, was being held on remand at this time.

[susan]

Hi campion  that is a question I would like the answer to.  Wonder if anyone on the forum can answer it.

[lookout]

And my argument from the very beginning was why would Jeremy have committed such a crime given that his grannie wasn't long for this world.? As we all know,,Jeremy was his grannies' " favourite " and he'd have known that whatever inheritance was left after her death,the majority would have gone to him. Let's face it,,he wouldn't have had to wait for long,besides,,it wasn't Jeremy who was money-motivated anyway.!!!

[susan]

Morning lookout

I have always thought that had Jeremy been greedy as perceived by some he would not have had to wait long for an inheritance from Grannie Speakman why risk life in prison when all he had to do was sit back and wait. He had shares in the caravan park own house,car wage from Ralph and really had everything paid for.  Am I right in thinking Ralph had bought some land for Jeremy or was going to do so.

[lookout]

Morning lookout

I have always thought that had Jeremy been greedy as perceived by some he would not have had to wait long for an inheritance from Grannie Speakman why risk life in prison when all he had to do was sit back and wait. He had shares in the caravan park own house,car wage from Ralph and really had everything paid for.  Am I right in thinking Ralph had bought some land for Jeremy or was going to do so.

Hi Susan,,yes it was in the pipe-line about Neville buying land for Jeremy,,and I think that if that had leaked out it would have been the last straw as far as the relatives were concerned. I just can't understand why they've been so brainwashed all these years,,without stopping to think " just what did happen ". Then again,,you'd naturally put any other scenario to the back of your mind while you're sitting back enjoying the fruits of someone else's labour.!

[tyler]

Did Mabel Speakman go into a nursing home? I wasn't aware of that. I don't think that Jeremy was going to be a main beneficiary of his grans will. The issue for RWB was that with all the Bambers being dead that Jeremy would probably have inherited all of Junes share and he was adamant that was not going to happen!

[maggie]

Did Mabel Speakman go into a nursing home? I wasn't aware of that. I don't think that Jeremy was going to be a main beneficiary of his grans will. The issue for RWB was that with all the Bambers being dead that Jeremy would probably have inherited all of Junes share and he was adamant that was not going to happen!

Amazing how death can focus the mind when there's money about, tyler.   Never ceases to amaze me. If Jeremy had shown signs of greed after the death of his parents he certainly wasn't alone.   I would also imagine Jeremy was looking for distraction and used possesions to divert him different story for some of the others imo.
No never heardvMabel Speakman was in a nursing home, if she was you of all people would know 

[campion]

Re my Post #320,  For the sake of clarification I was trying to ascertain who was the Executor of the Will, which Jeremy had seen, such that RWB deemed it necessary that a new and final Will be drawn up on Mrs Speakman's behalf, prior to her passing away. Ip so facto, I was asking if it was known who was the Executor of the Will  for probate purposes.

[Jane]

Amazing how death can focus the mind when there's money about, tyler.   Never ceases to amaze me. If Jeremy had shown signs of greed after the death of his parents he certainly wasn't alone.   I would also imagine Jeremy was looking for distraction and used possesions to divert him different story for some of the others imo.
No never heardvMabel Speakman was in a nursing home, if she was you of all people would know 

Maggie, I'm not quite certain what is meant by "Jeremy's greed" following the death of his parents. He had inherited!!!!  Save, bequests, it was ALL his. Any greed was on the part of the rellies. Ann asking for and taking!!! Auntie June's jewellery within DAYS of her death. Unless the will stated otherwise, it wasn't hers to take and even if jeremy had agreed to it, I feel sure he had things on his mind OTHER than the distribution of his mother's jewellery. It may have been that she wanted her engagement ring to be given to whoever Jeremy would marry.

[maggie]

Maggie, I'm not quite certain what is meant by "Jeremy's greed" following the death of his parents. He had inherited!!!!  Save, bequests, it was ALL his. Any greed was on the part of the rellies. Ann asking for and taking!!! Auntie June's jewellery within DAYS of her death. Unless the will stated otherwise, it wasn't hers to take and even if jeremy had agreed to it, I feel sure he had things on his mind OTHER than the distribution of his mother's jewellery. It may have been that she wanted her engagement ring to be given to whoever Jeremy would marry.

I wasn't accusing him of greed april just quoting what others have said, it's not at all a personal opinion. In fact I try to not have any opinions about Jeremys personality as I didn"t know him and its all heasay anyway. 
Only thing I picked up just recently when reading Wilkses' book is that as a young man he had been groomed to keep a stiff upper lip and to not show his emotions in public. I bekieve that's why he often covered up emotion with bravado imo.