Author Topic: ECHR ..... now - Killers' life terms 'breached their human rights'  (Read 54645 times)

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Offline maggie

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Re: ECHR ..... now - Killers' life terms 'breached their human rights'
« Reply #150 on: July 10, 2013, 08:16:PM »



Heartbreaking really,Maggie. For obvious reasons on Jeremys part,he's somewhat down,,and not without reason,,as he isn't a killer,others are. I was totally against him being named with the other two,as if he'd been purposely singled out. In fact,I was damned annoyed,that the press obviously couldn't wait to name him,,particularly the Telegraph.!
I agree lookout.  :)

mertol22

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Re: ECHR ..... now - Killers' life terms 'breached their human rights'
« Reply #151 on: July 10, 2013, 10:13:PM »
Like all prisoners none of them have  any say on current affairs the ruling can be considered a bridge a actual step, i read in the papers recently it is not possible to maintain the prison population with no time limit, this country is in very bad debt and getting even more so America will be billing us for their help in the 2 gulf wars and Afganistan soon, with costs of £75,000 per cat A prisoner per year to keep how long can it go on for, though i believe jeremy will win his freedom the road gets tough from here on.

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: ECHR ..... now - Killers' life terms 'breached their human rights'
« Reply #152 on: July 10, 2013, 10:44:PM »
Like all prisoners none of them have  any say on current affairs the ruling can be considered a bridge a actual step, i read in the papers recently it is not possible to maintain the prison population with no time limit, this country is in very bad debt and getting even more so America will be billing us for their help in the 2 gulf wars and Afganistan soon, with costs of £75,000 per cat A prisoner per year to keep how long can it go on for, though i believe jeremy will win his freedom the road gets tough from here on.
I also read the papers this morning and on page 4 of The Times staring at me was a photograph of Julie and Jeremy-when will the nightmare end for her? As far as the recent ECHR judgement is concerned I believe the British government cannot appeal so will either have to comply or withdraw from the jurisdiction of the court altogether. Maybe we could ship all 49 prisoners involved off to Norway and pay them a sum per head:good riddance I say.http://youtu.be/01mTKDaKa6Q

Reading Jeremy's reaction to the judgement I came across this snippet of how he used to spend Christmas at the White House. My attention was drawn to one sentence in particular:

" Every year, Sheila and I would do a Christmas raid on the presents underneath the tree this went on for a few years from when I was about 6 and Sheila about 10. She would come and get me out of bed and we would go down stairs in the middle of the night. Sheila would be the ‘lookout’ and, being the smallest I would sneak into the pile of presents. I would usually plunge into the presents right in the middle, trying not to disturb the pile too much. From there I would un-tape some of the presents and pull out chocolates from them and eat one or two passing some to Sheila. It was great fun - we would spend ages giggling and thinking that no one would ever know we had been in the middle of the presents eating the chocolates. Sheila would pull me out of the pile by my legs when I was done and we would both have chocolate all around our faces, go back to bed and come down in the morning like it with bits of tinsel and pine needles in our hair. Looking back, it must have been so obvious that we had been eating chocolates from our Christmas raid in the night but we really thought Mum and Dad didn’t notice. The best memories of Sheila and Christmas were the times we spent together decorating the tree. Sheila was very artistic and loved to put the decorations on carefully and the tree would look simply magnificent, even if we did have to put the baubles quite high because our cat, Thomas, would get hold of them."

Now I don't give a toss about Jeremy meeting the mother outside Williams and Griffins in Colchester,a mother whom he would later kill and express the sentiment to Julie "I'm glad she's dead" as he stuffed the heartfelt letter June wrote to be read after her death into the glove compartment of his car. I personally don't have any doubts as to Jeremy's guilt and I'm sorry about the distress caused to the relatives which you can see here:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23247525

However we do live in a Christian country which is why as prisoners get older they should be accorded more dignity and privacy,hence the Bastoy move. It's such a pity we have ended up in this situation whereby Jeremy is relying on pity and sympathy when he showed none to his five victims,the last of which he roused in the middle of the night just as Sheila did to him in yesteryear.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2013, 10:56:PM by Steve_uk »

mertol22

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Re: ECHR ..... now - Killers' life terms 'breached their human rights'
« Reply #153 on: July 10, 2013, 10:48:PM »
Firstly we do not live in a cristian country, there is no god, quoting from books is archive tense and not applicable to today, have you spent a day in a cell ?

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: ECHR ..... now - Killers' life terms 'breached their human rights'
« Reply #154 on: July 10, 2013, 10:51:PM »
Firstly we do not live in a cristian country, there is no god, quoting from books is archive tense and not applicable to today, have you spent a day in a cell ?
Never mertol22,but neither have I condemned five people to a premature death where they lie six feet underground relying on those left behind to maintain the truth of what happened to them 28 years ago.

Offline maggie

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Re: ECHR ..... now - Killers' life terms 'breached their human rights'
« Reply #155 on: July 10, 2013, 10:56:PM »
I also read the papers this morning and on page 4 of The Times staring at me was a photograph of Julie and Jeremy-when will the nightmare end for her? As far as the recent ECHR judgement is concerned I believe the British government cannot appeal so will either have to comply or withdraw from the jurisdiction of the court altogether. Maybe we could ship all 49 prisoners involved off to Norway and pay them a sum per head:good riddance I say.http://youtu.be/01mTKDaKa6Q

Reading Jeremy's reaction to the judgement I came across this snippet of how he used to spend Christmas at the White House. My attention was drawn to one sentence in particular:

" Every year, Sheila and I would do a Christmas raid on the presents underneath the tree this went on for a few years from when I was about 6 and Sheila about 10. She would come and get me out of bed and we would go down stairs in the middle of the night. Sheila would be the ‘lookout’ and, being the smallest I would sneak into the pile of presents. I would usually plunge into the presents right in the middle, trying not to disturb the pile too much. From there I would un-tape some of the presents and pull out chocolates from them and eat one or two passing some to Sheila. It was great fun - we would spend ages giggling and thinking that no one would ever know we had been in the middle of the presents eating the chocolates. Sheila would pull me out of the pile by my legs when I was done and we would both have chocolate all around our faces, go back to bed and come down in the morning like it with bits of tinsel and pine needles in our hair. Looking back, it must have been so obvious that we had been eating chocolates from our Christmas raid in the night but we really thought Mum and Dad didn’t notice. The best memories of Sheila and Christmas were the times we spent together decorating the tree. Sheila was very artistic and loved to put the decorations on carefully and the tree would look simply magnificent, even if we did have to put the baubles quite high because our cat, Thomas, would get hold of them."

Now I don't give a toss about Jeremy meeting the mother outside Williams and Griffins in Colchester,a mother whom he would later kill and express the sentiment to Julie "I'm glad she's dead" as he stuffed the heartfelt letter June wrote to be read after her death into the glove compartment of his car. I personally don't have any doubts as to Jeremy's guilt and I'm sorry about the distress caused to the relatives which you can see here:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23247525

However we do live in a Christian country which is why as prisoners get older they should be accorded more dignity and privacy,hence the Bastoy move. It's such a pity we have ended up in this situation whereby Jeremy is relying on pity and sympathy when he showed none to his five victims,the last of which he roused in the middle of the night just as Sheila did to him in yesteryear.
Hi Steve, I am interested how you are so absolutely, totally positive Jeremy Bamber carried out these murders.  As a juror you have to be sure beyond reasonable doubt which asks for real conclusive proof I should imagine.  Where is that proof beyond your own emotional reactions which are not really admissible in a court of law?

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: ECHR ..... now - Killers' life terms 'breached their human rights'
« Reply #156 on: July 10, 2013, 11:03:PM »
Hi Steve, I am interested how you are so absolutely, totally positive Jeremy Bamber carried out these murders.  As a juror you have to be sure beyond reasonable doubt which asks for real conclusive proof I should imagine.  Where is that proof beyond your own emotional reactions which are not really admissible in a court of law?
The proof is in Jeremy's behaviour after the deaths-as Brett told him before the funerals:"You look too happy..bite on an onion and wear some white make-up". He confessed to Julie that "I would have gone ahead with it anyway..don't blame yourself",there was the buttering up of Ann Eaton before the murders as he was attempting to keep her onside in the aftermath,the forensic evidence admittedly was missed but there were specks of blood on his shirt,there was the obnoxious attempt to sell photographs of Sheila which were useful to him and the destruction of her portfolio which was not..it all adds up to a portrait of a despicable man who is still trying to pull the wool over your eyes..
« Last Edit: July 10, 2013, 11:03:PM by Steve_uk »

Caroline R

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Re: ECHR ..... now - Killers' life terms 'breached their human rights'
« Reply #157 on: July 10, 2013, 11:06:PM »
Ground hogs!

Offline maggie

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Re: ECHR ..... now - Killers' life terms 'breached their human rights'
« Reply #158 on: July 10, 2013, 11:16:PM »
The proof is in Jeremy's behaviour after the deaths-as Brett told him before the funerals:"You look too happy..bite on an onion and wear some white make-up". He confessed to Julie that "I would have gone ahead with it anyway..don't blame yourself",there was the buttering up of Ann Eaton before the murders as he was attempting to keep her onside in the aftermath,the forensic evidence admittedly was missed but there were specks of blood on his shirt,there was the obnoxious attempt to sell photographs of Sheila which were useful to him and the destruction of her portfolio which was not..it all adds up to a portrait of a despicable man who is still trying to pull the wool over your eyes..
Nothing there that proves anything steve, all hearsay, no hard proof at all.

Offline maggie

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Re: ECHR ..... now - Killers' life terms 'breached their human rights'
« Reply #159 on: July 10, 2013, 11:18:PM »
Hi Caroline, have read this in Lomax's book that Jeremy's conviction was illegal on a technicality and if he just wanted to get out of jail he could contest his sentence on this one issue but he wants to prove his innocence.

http://jeremybambercampaigner.blogspot.co.uk/
« Last Edit: July 10, 2013, 11:22:PM by maggie »

Offline tyler

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Re: ECHR ..... now - Killers' life terms 'breached their human rights'
« Reply #160 on: July 11, 2013, 01:44:AM »
Steve,good to see you back posting! I agree that Jeremy's relatives are victims in that they lost members of their family in the most terrible circumstances and I genuinely feel sorry for them in that respect...BUT...if they really wanted to put it all behind them and "move on" then why take on whf? According to vidvic,the Boutflours/Eatons were already wealthy in their own right (although I disagree with him on this),so wouldn't it have been better to have allowed whf to be rented by someone other than the family? Its not as if whf was part of the Speakman estate,so why didn't they let it go and just concentrate on the Speakman land? Wouldn't that have been a better way of "moving on"?

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Re: ECHR ..... now - Killers' life terms 'breached their human rights'
« Reply #161 on: July 11, 2013, 02:43:AM »
Morning Mat wow the stranger has returned hope you are well.  Not too sure if I can agree with you that the latest ruling will not affect Jeremy keep watching this space ;D ;D ;D ;D

Hi Susan.

I've been reading/watching but there hasn't been much being posted, seems that things have picked up at the moment though.
Can I ask how you believe this particular ruling will affect Jeremy Bamber?

It just means that he can apply for parole, in which case he would need to show the parole board he's been rehabilitated - but that won't happen because he is still protesting innocence.

So I'm not sure how this ruling applies to Bamber at all.

Offline Reader

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Re: ECHR ..... now - Killers' life terms 'breached their human rights'
« Reply #162 on: July 11, 2013, 06:14:AM »
. . . Jeremy's conviction was illegal on a technicality . . .
As 4th June is exactly 28 days after 7th May, the indictment was signed within the time allowed. The day-counting rules were later changed to require the counting to start a day earlier (i.e., with the date of committal counted as day one) and hence confusion has arisen.

Offline susan

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Re: ECHR ..... now - Killers' life terms 'breached their human rights'
« Reply #163 on: July 11, 2013, 07:15:AM »
Morning Mat

regarding the ECHR ruling I don't have the advantage that you have of being legally trained but common sense tells me it would not have been applied for if it was not going to be of use in the future I could be wrong of course.  Had a little whisper that something "big" is going to happen in the Jeremy Bamber case in the not too distant future so have wondered if the two are connected.  We shall all have to watch the forum like hawks.  Susanxx

Offline susan

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Re: ECHR ..... now - Killers' life terms 'breached their human rights'
« Reply #164 on: July 11, 2013, 07:20:AM »
Morning tyler

I agree it would have made more sense if the family members had not moved into WHF the dreadful memories will always be with them whilst living in the house and they will be reminded daily of what happened especially in the kitchen and bedroom area how they sleep I just don't know. I really don't know how they can live with that.  Better to have made a new start and got on with their lives and forgot about Jeremy.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2013, 07:25:AM by susan »