ECHR ..... now - Killers' life terms 'breached their human rights'

[killingeve]

Susan, I will grant that Grannie was moving towards the end of her life but "frail" is not a word that those who knew her would have used to describe her, however, it's my understanding that she was told that "they were ALL dead" and that Jeremy's name wasn't mentioned. It's therefore reasonable to assume that after such ambiguity she imagined that Jeremy also was dead and adjusted her will accordingly.

Hi April

I was just looking for the relevant sections in AE's wit stat re the 'telling' Grannie Speakman but after two halves of real ale I feel to dozy - don't usually drink during the day.  Anyway from memory AE states that PB told GS rather bluntly that June, NB, SC and the twins were dead.  Apparently GS sat bolt upright in bed and said that'll be the devil at work or words to this effect before returning to a slumber.  Again ref to "Devil"  . We now have RB - JB selling his soul to the devil, DB standing up to evil in recent vid clip, June - SC Devil's child.  I have no knowledge of other families using these expressions in what appears to be everyday speech 

I don't think DB was particularly religious.  DB's son, Simon Boutflour, was involved in a very sad and tragic farm accident whereby he died at just 13 yoa.  Simon was helping His father on the farm and the pair were involved with moving a pole which hit a pylon when Simon lifted it to release a trapped rabbit.  As DB carried Simon back to the farm he prayed for Simon's life and promised he would attend church regularly if he was saved. 

[killingeve]

Oh yeah meant to mention author, Bernard Cornwell, he was adopted by a couple from Thundersley Essex.  Apparently BC's adoptive parents were members of a strict religious sect: The Peculiars!  I was wondering whether in a bygone era in rural Essex this sort of thing was prevalent 

[Jane]

Hi April

I was just looking for the relevant sections in AE's wit stat re the 'telling' Grannie Speakman but after two halves of real ale I feel to dozy - don't usually drink during the day.  Anyway from memory AE states that PB told GS rather bluntly that June, NB, SC and the twins were dead.  Apparently GS sat bolt upright in bed and said that'll be the devil at work or words to this effect before returning to a slumber.  Again ref to "Devil"  . We now have RB - JB selling his soul to the devil, DB standing up to evil in recent vid clip, June - SC Devil's child.  I have no knowledge of other families using these expressions in what appears to be everyday speech 

I don't think DB was particularly religious.  DB's son, Simon Boutflour, was involved in a very sad and tragic farm accident whereby he died at just 13 yoa.  Simon was helping His father on the farm and the pair were involved with moving a pole which hit a pylon when Simon lifted it to release a trapped rabbit.  As DB carried Simon back to the farm he prayed for Simon's life and promised he would attend church regularly if he was saved.

NaNu, HI,

I did know of this tragic accident. One can only wonder at the depths of despairn DB would have sunk to and I think he reached out for what may a been a very powerful part of his childhood, the instruction that if we were bad God would punish us but if we were good and prayed to him regularly, he would forgive us our sins. Possibly he was seeking to do a deal with God. I imagine that many of us with similar childhood experiences would have done the same in his position.

You have spoken previously of these fears/obsessions with evil. Yung would have it that this is a part of our collective memory. Perhaps so. There are certain sects which adhere to the fire and brimstone/vengeful God theory and whilst they are not necessarily Essex based, there are many little chapels to be found around the Essex creeks.

I would have thought it more usual for the Speakmans to support the Church of the Establishment but from what I've been given to understand Grannie was a force to be reckoned with. I was also told, but can't verify it, that her day began with prayers and a Bible reading which I wouldn't be surprised to learn was of the Old Testament variety. Such happenings would undoubtedly stay fixed in a child's mind and to me it makes perfect sense that it's something the adult would return to in times of helplessness/need.

[maggie]

Oh yeah meant to mention author, Bernard Cornwell, he was adopted by a couple from Thundersley Essex.  Apparently BC's adoptive parents were members of a strict religious sect: The Peculiars!  I was wondering whether in a bygone era in rural Essex this sort of thing was prevalent 

What NN? Being Peculiar?

[Patti]

Hi April

I was just looking for the relevant sections in AE's wit stat re the 'telling' Grannie Speakman but after two halves of real ale I feel to dozy - don't usually drink during the day.  Anyway from memory AE states that PB told GS rather bluntly that June, NB, SC and the twins were dead.  Apparently GS sat bolt upright in bed and said that'll be the devil at work or words to this effect before returning to a slumber.  Again ref to "Devil"  . We now have RB - JB selling his soul to the devil, DB standing up to evil in recent vid clip, June - SC Devil's child.  I have no knowledge of other families using these expressions in what appears to be everyday speech 

I don't think DB was particularly religious.  DB's son, Simon Boutflour, was involved in a very sad and tragic farm accident whereby he died at just 13 yoa.  Simon was helping His father on the farm and the pair were involved with moving a pole which hit a pylon when Simon lifted it to release a trapped rabbit.  As DB carried Simon back to the farm he prayed for Simon's life and promised he would attend church regularly if he was saved.

Sorry to hear about such an awful tragedy, the family have certainly had their fair share of tragedy. Very sad!

[Caroline R]

Hi April

I was just looking for the relevant sections in AE's wit stat re the 'telling' Grannie Speakman but after two halves of real ale I feel to dozy - don't usually drink during the day.  Anyway from memory AE states that PB told GS rather bluntly that June, NB, SC and the twins were dead.  Apparently GS sat bolt upright in bed and said that'll be the devil at work or words to this effect before returning to a slumber.  Again ref to "Devil"  . We now have RB - JB selling his soul to the devil, DB standing up to evil in recent vid clip, June - SC Devil's child.  I have no knowledge of other families using these expressions in what appears to be everyday speech 

I don't think DB was particularly religious.  DB's son, Simon Boutflour, was involved in a very sad and tragic farm accident whereby he died at just 13 yoa.  Simon was helping His father on the farm and the pair were involved with moving a pole which hit a pylon when Simon lifted it to release a trapped rabbit.  As DB carried Simon back to the farm he prayed for Simon's life and promised he would attend church regularly if he was saved.

[Jane]

Thanks for that Caroline. That statement brooks no argument, does it. It's quite emphatic and she clearly believes it to be so. The belief may well be one that had been drilled into her when she was small, which is how these generational ideas/superstitions/comforts get handed on.

[Steve_uk]

Maggie, I'm not quite certain what is meant by "Jeremy's greed" following the death of his parents. He had inherited!!!!  Save, bequests, it was ALL his. Any greed was on the part of the rellies. Ann asking for and taking!!! Auntie June's jewellery within DAYS of her death. Unless the will stated otherwise, it wasn't hers to take and even if jeremy had agreed to it, I feel sure he had things on his mind OTHER than the distribution of his mother's jewellery. It may have been that she wanted her engagement ring to be given to whoever Jeremy would marry.

Of course Colin was a victim and I don't want to minimize his loss. I was discussing the relatives who were left the key to White House Farm,and it's pretty clear that Jeremy's mind was focused on the material value of the antiques and valuables left behind as he sorted them into piles in front of Ann Eaton,and not the emotional sentiment of his bereavement.

[Steve_uk]

Could we also bury this old chestnut that Jeremy was the beneficiary of Mabel Speakman's estate? She left her property to her daughters Pamela and June.

[nugnug]

people do all sorts of strange things when there in grief.

people handle grief in diffrent ways.

in some of an eatons behavior after the murder can only be described as bizare.

[Steve_uk]

people do all sorts of strange things when there in grief.

people handle grief in diffrent ways.

in some of an eatons behavior after the murder can only be described as bizare.

She suspected Jeremy of the Osea Road robbery,and of course his remark to Robert Boutflour about "easily being able to kill his parents" didn't help Jeremy's cause in front of the relatives.

Mass murderers always drop clues.David Bain,Lizzie Borden..

[susan]

Hello steve  just wondering why Jeremy would have to drop clues to the relatives when according to you he confessed to Julie about a year before he murdered his family she would tell them plus they found their own clues.

[nugnug]

She suspected Jeremy of the Osea Road robbery,and of course his remark to Robert Boutflour about "easily being able to kill his parents" didn't help Jeremy's cause in front of the relatives.

Mass murderers always drop clues.David Bain,Lizzie Borden..

wernt they both found innocent.

i know lizzie borden was.

[campion]

Susan, Perhaps Steve UK was present when Jeremy allegedly made this horrendous remark to RWB,  or is it based on "hearsay"?

[susan]

Hello campion  steve seems to have been present at many conversations it would seem between the relatives and conversations between Jeremy and Julie quite amazing.