ECHR ..... now - Killers' life terms 'breached their human rights'

[Jane]

I also read the papers this morning and on page 4 of The Times staring at me was a photograph of Julie and Jeremy-when will the nightmare end for her? As far as the recent ECHR judgement is concerned I believe the British government cannot appeal so will either have to comply or withdraw from the jurisdiction of the court altogether. Maybe we could ship all 49 prisoners involved off to Norway and pay them a sum per head:good riddance I say.http://youtu.be/01mTKDaKa6Q

Reading Jeremy's reaction to the judgement I came across this snippet of how he used to spend Christmas at the White House. My attention was drawn to one sentence in particular:

" Every year, Sheila and I would do a Christmas raid on the presents underneath the tree this went on for a few years from when I was about 6 and Sheila about 10. She would come and get me out of bed and we would go down stairs in the middle of the night. Sheila would be the ‘lookout’ and, being the smallest I would sneak into the pile of presents. I would usually plunge into the presents right in the middle, trying not to disturb the pile too much. From there I would un-tape some of the presents and pull out chocolates from them and eat one or two passing some to Sheila. It was great fun - we would spend ages giggling and thinking that no one would ever know we had been in the middle of the presents eating the chocolates. Sheila would pull me out of the pile by my legs when I was done and we would both have chocolate all around our faces, go back to bed and come down in the morning like it with bits of tinsel and pine needles in our hair. Looking back, it must have been so obvious that we had been eating chocolates from our Christmas raid in the night but we really thought Mum and Dad didn’t notice. The best memories of Sheila and Christmas were the times we spent together decorating the tree. Sheila was very artistic and loved to put the decorations on carefully and the tree would look simply magnificent, even if we did have to put the baubles quite high because our cat, Thomas, would get hold of them."

Now I don't give a toss about Jeremy meeting the mother outside Williams and Griffins in Colchester,a mother whom he would later kill and express the sentiment to Julie "I'm glad she's dead" as he stuffed the heartfelt letter June wrote to be read after her death into the glove compartment of his car. I personally don't have any doubts as to Jeremy's guilt and I'm sorry about the distress caused to the relatives which you can see here:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23247525

However we do live in a Christian country which is why as prisoners get older they should be accorded more dignity and privacy,hence the Bastoy move. It's such a pity we have ended up in this situation whereby Jeremy is relying on pity and sympathy when he showed none to his five victims,the last of which he roused in the middle of the night just as Sheila did to him in yesteryear.

STEEEEEEEEEVE!!! Good to see you back. It's good to have someone with whom one disagrees even if what they have to offer is Groundhogs or ballcocks.

I am interested to know what drew you to that particular sentence in that particular paragraph. I see a brother and sister almost sick with the anticipation of Christmas doing what children do. To me, it's a delightful word picture.

Whilst you, as an ADULT, "don't give a toss" about the memory of young BOY meeting his mother outside a store at Christmas time, and your anger comes over LOUD AND CLEAR, many of us probably "don't give a toss" about how long "the nightmare" goes on for Julie.

Your belief in Jeremy's guilt would have much more credibility if it wasn't for your agenda regarding a woman who behaved with the same characteristics as the type of woman June accused her of being. From where I'm sitting she prostituted herself and when one source of high income dried up she turned to another.

I can only imagine how you might feel should evidence emerge to show that Jeremy is innocent because it would blow Julie's evidence away and show her for what she really is behind the facade of a woman who does charity work. It's always sad when our vision of perfection is destroyed but you could end up being thankful that she's many miles away from you.

[maggie]

Morning Mat
regarding the ECHR ruling I don't have the advantage that you have of being legally trained but common sense tells me it would not have been applied for if it was not going to be of use in the future I could be wrong of course.  Had a little whisper that something "big" is going to happen in the Jeremy Bamber case in the not too distant future so have wondered if the two are connected.  We shall all have to watch the forum like hawks.  Susanxx

Morning susie, I have heard that whisper too, it's all really exciting and hopeful at the moment.

[susan]

Maggie I suspect your source is the same as mine and very reliable.  I am so excited hope I wont be off the internet when it happens due to this house move

[maggie]

Maggie I suspect your source is the same as mine and very reliable.  I am so excited hope I wont be off the internet when it happens due to this house move

Probably susie schhhhhh top secret!!  You HAVE to keep connected anyway, we will all miss you far too much if you dont, the forum wont be the same.

[susan]

Maggie whilst the new house is being built I shall be living at the farm in a rabbit hutch it has all mod cons but guess what no land line and what does that mean no Dial Up.  The main Avanti Sat Dish is on the farm tower so if I cannot get connected to Broadband something very wrong you may be without me for a few days

[maggie]

Maggie whilst the new house is being built I shall be living at the farm in a rabbit hutch it has all mod cons but guess what no land line and what does that mean no Dial Up.  The main Avanti Sat Dish is on the farm tower so if I cannot get connected to Broadband something very wrong you may be without me for a few days

How will we manage susie!!!
Do you remember semaphore from your Brownie days?  I could send a message if the news breaks when you're offline? ....... or smoke signals are always an option, morse code?

[susan]

Mags don't you worry your pretty little head I will be on line I suspect a row is coming my way for wandering off a little

[Lugg]

I also read the papers this morning and on page 4 of The Times staring at me was a photograph of Julie and Jeremy-when will the nightmare end for her? As far as the recent ECHR judgement is concerned I believe the British government cannot appeal so will either have to comply or withdraw from the jurisdiction of the court altogether. Maybe we could ship all 49 prisoners involved off to Norway and pay them a sum per head:good riddance I say.http://youtu.be/01mTKDaKa6Q

Reading Jeremy's reaction to the judgement I came across this snippet of how he used to spend Christmas at the White House. My attention was drawn to one sentence in particular:

" Every year, Sheila and I would do a Christmas raid on the presents underneath the tree this went on for a few years from when I was about 6 and Sheila about 10. She would come and get me out of bed and we would go down stairs in the middle of the night. Sheila would be the ‘lookout’ and, being the smallest I would sneak into the pile of presents. I would usually plunge into the presents right in the middle, trying not to disturb the pile too much. From there I would un-tape some of the presents and pull out chocolates from them and eat one or two passing some to Sheila. It was great fun - we would spend ages giggling and thinking that no one would ever know we had been in the middle of the presents eating the chocolates. Sheila would pull me out of the pile by my legs when I was done and we would both have chocolate all around our faces, go back to bed and come down in the morning like it with bits of tinsel and pine needles in our hair. Looking back, it must have been so obvious that we had been eating chocolates from our Christmas raid in the night but we really thought Mum and Dad didn’t notice. The best memories of Sheila and Christmas were the times we spent together decorating the tree. Sheila was very artistic and loved to put the decorations on carefully and the tree would look simply magnificent, even if we did have to put the baubles quite high because our cat, Thomas, would get hold of them."

Now I don't give a toss about Jeremy meeting the mother outside Williams and Griffins in Colchester,a mother whom he would later kill and express the sentiment to Julie "I'm glad she's dead" as he stuffed the heartfelt letter June wrote to be read after her death into the glove compartment of his car. I personally don't have any doubts as to Jeremy's guilt and I'm sorry about the distress caused to the relatives which you can see here:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23247525

However we do live in a Christian country which is why as prisoners get older they should be accorded more dignity and privacy,hence the Bastoy move. It's such a pity we have ended up in this situation whereby Jeremy is relying on pity and sympathy when he showed none to his five victims,the last of which he roused in the middle of the night just as Sheila did to him in yesteryear.

Well we don't of course. But it was Christians after the 1740's Great Awakening that changed many people's lives for the better, including their campaigning to treat all prisoners with humanity and dignity.

[lookout]

Steve,good to see you back posting! I agree that Jeremy's relatives are victims in that they lost members of their family in the most terrible circumstances and I genuinely feel sorry for them in that respect...BUT...if they really wanted to put it all behind them and "move on" then why take on whf? According to vidvic,the Boutflours/Eatons were already wealthy in their own right (although I disagree with him on this),so wouldn't it have been better to have allowed whf to be rented by someone other than the family? Its not as if whf was part of the Speakman estate,so why didn't they let it go and just concentrate on the Speakman land? Wouldn't that have been a better way of "moving on"?

Hi tyler,,that was their biggest mistake,,moving into WHF. Sorry,,but can people be so desperate as to move into a house with not only the sadness of the Bamber family,,,but on two other prior occasions,death was brought to the same doorstep.
I COULD NOT have made that move under any circumstances,,,and particularly so that it wasn't even owned by the family,,so had no sentimental connections in that respect. I would have been as far away as possible from the place,as would many others have been. The only necessity that would remain,would have been to gain a cash-flow by selling what you had,in order to rent WHF. No other reason whatsoever in moving into somewhere which would be a constant reminder of a tragedy.
Had it not been a listed property,,it probably would have been razed to the ground as is usual in these cases.
Even if the Bambers had owned the place,,I'd have sold it on,,not lived in it. How could they.??

[Patti]

Mags don't you worry your pretty little head I will be on line I suspect a row is coming my way for wandering off a little

And who is going to row with you Susan? Not me.......

[susan]

Hello my dear Patti

that Maggie is always giving me a row for going off topic so I have to try and stop wandering off into a world all of my own

[Steve_uk]

Steve,good to see you back posting! I agree that Jeremy's relatives are victims in that they lost members of their family in the most terrible circumstances and I genuinely feel sorry for them in that respect...BUT...if they really wanted to put it all behind them and "move on" then why take on whf? According to vidvic,the Boutflours/Eatons were already wealthy in their own right (although I disagree with him on this),so wouldn't it have been better to have allowed whf to be rented by someone other than the family? Its not as if whf was part of the Speakman estate,so why didn't they let it go and just concentrate on the Speakman land? Wouldn't that have been a better way of "moving on"?

I don't see why particularly. Pamela was June's sister and Pamela's daughter took on the land..someone had to..why the big deal?

[Steve_uk]

STEEEEEEEEEVE!!! Good to see you back. It's good to have someone with whom one disagrees even if what they have to offer is Groundhogs or ballcocks.

I am interested to know what drew you to that particular sentence in that particular paragraph. I see a brother and sister almost sick with the anticipation of Christmas doing what children do. To me, it's a delightful word picture.

Whilst you, as an ADULT, "don't give a toss" about the memory of young BOY meeting his mother outside a store at Christmas time, and your anger comes over LOUD AND CLEAR, many of us probably "don't give a toss" about how long "the nightmare" goes on for Julie.

Your belief in Jeremy's guilt would have much more credibility if it wasn't for your agenda regarding a woman who behaved with the same characteristics as the type of woman June accused her of being. From where I'm sitting she prostituted herself and when one source of high income dried up she turned to another.

I can only imagine how you might feel should evidence emerge to show that Jeremy is innocent because it would blow Julie's evidence away and show her for what she really is behind the facade of a woman who does charity work. It's always sad when our vision of perfection is destroyed but you could end up being thankful that she's many miles away from you.

It came about as part of Jeremy's plan to wake up his sister in the middle of the night as he thought back to the times she had done the same thing to him. Remember the comment Jeremy made to Charles Marsden was associated with Christmas. These things were whirring inside Jeremy's head. It was the same with the David Bain case which I'm reading about now. Nothing exists in a vacuum.

[Steve_uk]

Hi tyler,,that was their biggest mistake,,moving into WHF. Sorry,,but can people be so desperate as to move into a house with not only the sadness of the Bamber family,,,but on two other prior occasions,death was brought to the same doorstep.
I COULD NOT have made that move under any circumstances,,,and particularly so that it wasn't even owned by the family,,so had no sentimental connections in that respect. I would have been as far away as possible from the place,as would many others have been. The only necessity that would remain,would have been to gain a cash-flow by selling what you had,in order to rent WHF. No other reason whatsoever in moving into somewhere which would be a constant reminder of a tragedy.
Had it not been a listed property,,it probably would have been razed to the ground as is usual in these cases.
Even if the Bambers had owned the place,,I'd have sold it on,,not lived in it. How could they.??

Because the best testament to the Bamber murders that evil would not triumph was for children's laughter to echo through the confines of the building once again and not be snuffed out with the deaths of the twins.

[maggie]

I don't see why particularly. Pamela was June's sister and Pamela's daughter took on the land..someone had to..why the big deal?

It's interesting that everything Jeremy did, said, looked is a big deal in your eyes steve but nothing the extended family do is a big deal, everything is understandable and explainable.  You seem to have a very biased view of the case imo.