Author Topic: Daniel and Nicholas Caffell: 22 June 1979-7 August 1985  (Read 138861 times)

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Offline Roch

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Re: Daniel and Nicholas Caffell: 22 June 1979-7 August 1985
« Reply #810 on: March 01, 2018, 11:17:AM »
His report (as he actually viewed the body) would have more bearing and he is still alive and not god like, just very well respected.

It doesn't matter how well respected he is.  Rolf Harris was a well respected artist and children's television entertainer.  Up until a few years ago, Aung San Suu Kyi was revered.  Now her reputation has taken a huge dint.  When you deal with a medical professional, if you don't agree with them, you are probably entitled to a second opinion from another medical professional.  It's why things are 'peer revewed'.

Quite why or how Vanezis has taken on such an infallible repuation is beyond me.  His 'expert' testimony helped wrongfully convict someone who languished in prison for several years.

Offline Caroline

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Re: Daniel and Nicholas Caffell: 22 June 1979-7 August 1985
« Reply #811 on: March 01, 2018, 11:20:AM »
What you're looking at is only her right hand - not the rest of her body.  It doesn't look like a smear of blood.  People are attempting to label it a smear of blood purely because it wasn't referred to as a wound.  What Vanezis actually said when testifying (regarding the mark on the forefinger) was laughable (given that he had full access to the physical body - and it that was the body of a person in the frame for murdering four people with a rifle).

Yep, something with you and the owners of the above photograph never has. It's not even in his notes written on the day of the murders when other superficial wounds were. Of course we have been here before and you'll argue that we can't know when he wrote the notes (even though we do) or they were incomplete (even though other superficial wounds were mentioned that had nothing to do with the incident).
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Offline Roch

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Re: Daniel and Nicholas Caffell: 22 June 1979-7 August 1985
« Reply #812 on: March 01, 2018, 11:23:AM »
Yep, something with you and the owners of the above photograph never has. It's not even in his notes written on the day of the murders when other superficial wounds were. Of course we have been here before and you'll argue that we can't know when he wrote the notes (even though we do) or they were incomplete (even though other superficial wounds were mentioned that had nothing to do with the incident).

A graze with a plaster on it is not exactly an indicator of a murderous struggle is it?  So it was safe to mention.  Vanezis assited police and was/is probably regarded as a 'safe bet' if you're a detective looking for a 'helpful' pathologist.

Have you actually read what he said when questioned regarding the mark on her forefinger?
« Last Edit: March 01, 2018, 11:24:AM by Roch »

Offline Jane

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Re: Daniel and Nicholas Caffell: 22 June 1979-7 August 1985
« Reply #813 on: March 01, 2018, 11:34:AM »
A graze with a plaster on it is not exactly an indicator of a murderous struggle is it?  So it was safe to mention.  Vanezis assited police and was/is probably regarded as a 'safe bet' if you're a detective looking for a 'helpful' pathologist.

Have you actually read what he said when questioned regarding the mark on her forefinger?

A plaster? According to Lookout, a 'pad' could be detected beneath her nightdress and the wound was definitely connected to the murders.

Offline Caroline

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Re: Daniel and Nicholas Caffell: 22 June 1979-7 August 1985
« Reply #814 on: March 01, 2018, 11:45:AM »
It doesn't matter how well respected he is.  Rolf Harris was a well respected artist and children's television entertainer.  Up until a few years ago, Aung San Suu Kyi was revered.  Now her reputation has taken a huge dint.  When you deal with a medical professional, if you don't agree with them, you are probably entitled to a second opinion from another medical professional.  It's why things are 'peer revewed'.

Quite why or how Vanezis has taken on such an infallible repuation is beyond me.  His 'expert' testimony helped wrongfully convict someone who languished in prison for several years.
Well, let's take one of your examples from above - Rolf Harris sexually assaulted several young women. His motive was self-serving. Vanezis didn't work for EP, nor did his career or pension depend on them. You're blatantly stating that he falsified Sheila's autopsy report from day one, when he missed out vital injuries which could link her to the murder. I know you don't think it your place to provide a motive - but without one, there is little or no reason for him to have done what he is being accused of.

Before anyone was accused of anything, the photographs would need to be authenticated (I believe you say that there are 'others'). Enlargements of her hands were at trial and were shown to the jury. Of course I know you question the quality of the photo's used but it was only in 1985, not 1885. I fin it hard to believe that no one noticed injuries on her hands or all over her body from these images. Otherwise, how did the person who produced these new images see what others have failed to see and be convinced enough to reproduce them? Presumably, the negatives used to produce the CS photographs are the same negatives that were used to produce the images you refer to? However, these new images, must have been digitally mastered?
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Offline Caroline

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Re: Daniel and Nicholas Caffell: 22 June 1979-7 August 1985
« Reply #815 on: March 01, 2018, 11:47:AM »
A graze with a plaster on it is not exactly an indicator of a murderous struggle is it?  So it was safe to mention.  Vanezis assited police and was/is probably regarded as a 'safe bet' if you're a detective looking for a 'helpful' pathologist.

Have you actually read what he said when questioned regarding the mark on her forefinger?

So, Venezis was the go-to guy if you want a dodgy autopsy report?

Yes I have.
Few people have the imagination for reality

Offline Roch

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Re: Daniel and Nicholas Caffell: 22 June 1979-7 August 1985
« Reply #816 on: March 01, 2018, 11:48:AM »
Got to do some e-learning at work.  Back later for further discussion  :))

Offline Jane

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Re: Daniel and Nicholas Caffell: 22 June 1979-7 August 1985
« Reply #817 on: March 01, 2018, 12:01:PM »
Got to do some e-learning at work.  Back later for further discussion  :))

A convenient place to stop? ;D

Offline lookout

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Re: Daniel and Nicholas Caffell: 22 June 1979-7 August 1985
« Reply #818 on: March 01, 2018, 12:06:PM »
The first pathologist in the Ian Tomlinson case was " working with the police ". Why ? Because Ian was so brutally kicked/punched by police that it ruptured his liver. Thankfully in the end this damage was discovered after another pathologist was hired to give his verdict and the previous pathologist was dismissed,but the officer responsible was only suspended from duty pending an enquiry. The thug was probably then allowed to continue with his career.

Offline Caroline

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Re: Daniel and Nicholas Caffell: 22 June 1979-7 August 1985
« Reply #819 on: March 01, 2018, 12:11:PM »
The first pathologist in the Ian Tomlinson case was " working with the police ". Why ? Because Ian was so brutally kicked/punched by police that it ruptured his liver. Thankfully in the end this damage was discovered after another pathologist was hired to give his verdict and the previous pathologist was dismissed,but the officer responsible was only suspended from duty pending an enquiry. The thug was probably then allowed to continue with his career.

Indeed, but Patel had a history of being a pretty shite pathologist, nothing to do with helping the police. He was just crap.
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Offline Roch

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Re: Daniel and Nicholas Caffell: 22 June 1979-7 August 1985
« Reply #820 on: March 01, 2018, 12:18:PM »
A convenient place to stop? ;D

For long replies yes. I am at work after all.  ^-^

Offline Jane

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Re: Daniel and Nicholas Caffell: 22 June 1979-7 August 1985
« Reply #821 on: March 01, 2018, 12:20:PM »
For long replies yes. I am at work after all.  ^-^


Then you'd best get your head down and keep at it ;D ;D ;D

Offline lookout

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Re: Daniel and Nicholas Caffell: 22 June 1979-7 August 1985
« Reply #822 on: March 01, 2018, 12:40:PM »
Indeed, but Patel had a history of being a pretty shite pathologist, nothing to do with helping the police. He was just crap.






That being the case he should NEVER have been passed by the BMA to practice as a pathologist if he couldn't tell the heart from the liver ! Doesn't it make you wonder ? Because it does me.

Offline Caroline

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Re: Daniel and Nicholas Caffell: 22 June 1979-7 August 1985
« Reply #823 on: March 01, 2018, 12:52:PM »





That being the case he should NEVER have been passed by the BMA to practice as a pathologist if he couldn't tell the heart from the liver ! Doesn't it make you wonder ? Because it does me.

Well, no, Mr Tomlinson DID have a cardiac arrest but it was due to internal bleeding from liver damage. He must have passed all of his exams to qualify but that doesn't mean he would be great in practice. He may have been influenced by the police or he may just have been useless - but Patel isn't Vanezis. However, I do still question why he initially insinuated that her palms were bloodied and then seemed to change of the typed version. However, he never mentions other cuts or abrasions linked to the event on Sheila's body.
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Offline lookout

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Re: Daniel and Nicholas Caffell: 22 June 1979-7 August 1985
« Reply #824 on: March 01, 2018, 01:02:PM »
Well, no, Mr Tomlinson DID have a cardiac arrest but it was due to internal bleeding from liver damage. He must have passed all of his exams to qualify but that doesn't mean he would be great in practice. He may have been influenced by the police or he may just have been useless - but Patel isn't Vanezis. However, I do still question why he initially insinuated that her palms were bloodied and then seemed to change of the typed version. However, he never mentions other cuts or abrasions linked to the event on Sheila's body.





Vanezis first handwritten verdict was exactly as he saw things. When was it typewritten ? Date ?