Daniel and Nicholas Caffell: 22 June 1979-7 August 1985

[susan]

tyler how could you offend anyone on this forum you are just trying to prove a point and I for one applaud you for being so open and honest.  This subject has been discussed in depth on the forum even steve uk has been involved in tampons in quite a graphic way so don't be apologising to anyonexxx  If you recall N/N did her own experiment on menstrual blood.

[Caroline R]

Hi Caroline. That is interesting,although I don't really believe the so called "blob" AE saw was in fact menstrual blood. Sheilas blood in the buckets would have been diluted? However,my little experiment has now fully convinced me that the so called silencer "evidence" HAS to be bogus.

I agree and I can't imagine it would offend anyone

[tyler]

Thank you Susan and Caroline xx

[Jane]

Hmmm....in hindsight,perhaps I didn't need to reveal the origin of the blood for my experiment! Am obviously too open and honest for my own good! Sorry if I offended anyone

Tyler, I commend your honesty and your bravery in sharing with us your experiment.

[maggie]

AE described this "blob" as resembling rabbits blood. Which brings me to tell something really embarrasing but,I feel relevant. Yesterday,I somehow ended up with a "blob" of menstrual blood on top of a wrapper on the side of my bath next to the toilet. I stared at it fascinated for ages as it was the approx the size of a match head and really did resemble a blob of jelly/jam. Anyway,I stored it carefully in my bedroom cupboard and today it is no longer bright red and has almost disintegrated and disappeared. I shall update you with results on day three. I really cannot believe how this "blob" of blood allegedly seen on the silencer was not questioned by blood experts. If it really was indeed seen by the relatives,and was indeed blood,then it had to
 have been fresh that day and certainly not three days old!

I agree tyler if there was blood it cannot have been 3 days old and it cannot have travelled in a plastic bag. Even with the benefit doubt it could not have happened.

[Jane]

I agree tyler if there was blood it cannot have been 3 days old and it cannot have travelled in a plastic bag. Even with the benefit doubt it could not have happened.

Girls, please forgive me, but I want to do a recap here, mostly to make certain that I know what we've got and for any others who may not be 100% clear.

 3 days AFTER the tragedy, relatives find a silencer in a cupboard, with hair and blood attached. Instead of leaving it there and calling the police to tell them they (all?) handle it and take it home with them where it remains for a further time until a decision is reached on what to do with it, after which they take it to the police, with the blood and hair still in situ.

If I have this somewhere close to being correct, could someone tell me how many days had lapsed between the tragedy and the silencers being delivered into the hands of the police. Can you also tell me how many people would have handled it BEFORE it was handed to the police.

[Caroline R]

Girls, please forgive me, but I want to do a recap here, mostly to make certain that I know what we've got and for any others who may not be 100% clear.

 3 days AFTER the tragedy, relatives find a silencer in a cupboard, with hair and blood attached. Instead of leaving it there and calling the police to tell them they (all?) handle it and take it home with them where it remains for a further time until a decision is reached on what to do with it, after which they take it to the police, with the blood and hair still in situ

If I have this somewhere close to being correct, could someone tell me how many days had lapsed between the tragedy and the silencers being delivered into the hands of the police. Can you also tell me how many people would have handled it BEFORE it was handed to the police.

That's almost what's being stated except that SJ claims to have collected the moderator from Peter Eaton on 12th (the Monday after the tragedy). so that's 5 days after the event. IF Jeremy Bamber was the killer it would mean he first handled it whilst the blob was still wet. He unscrewed it from the rifle and then placed it back in the cupboard without disturbing, smearing or wiping off the blood - it remains in the cupboard waiting for David Boutflour to find it 3 days later. David states that it was then placed in a plastic bag and put into Ann's car where it travelled to the Eaton farm. David and Peter Eaton examine it at the kitchen table and notice the blood (although DB also states that he saw blood back at WHF). This is where Ann describes it as looking like a 'blob of jam' - so it's still survives in tact. It's then placed in the Eatons wardrobe back in the plastic bag after which time it is handed to SJ who miraculously spots a grey hair stuck to the blob of blood. Of course the others didn't see this when they were 'examining' it around the table. It's then placed into a cardboard tube and pegged at both sides where is it later passed to Cook. So that's five people now who have handled the moderator and the blood would seem to still be in tact at this point. However, once at the lab, the hair is gone and the description of the blood turns to a 'smear' with no mention of dried fragments being found in the packaging.
 

[Jane]

That's almost what's being stated except that SJ claims to have collected the moderator from Peter Eaton on 12th (the Monday after the tragedy). so that's 5 days after the event. IF Jeremy Bamber was the killer it would mean he first handled it whilst the blob was still wet. He unscrewed it from the rifle and then placed it back in the cupboard without disturbing, smearing or wiping off the blood - it remains in the cupboard waiting for David Boutflour to find it 3 days later. David states that it was then placed in a plastic bag and put into Ann's car where it travelled to the Eaton farm. David and Peter Eaton examine it at the kitchen table and notice the blood (although DB also states that he saw blood back at WHF). This is where Ann describes it as looking like a 'blob of jam' - so it's still survives in tact. It's then placed in the Eatons wardrobe back in the plastic bag after which time it is handed to SJ who miraculously spots a grey hair stuck to the blob of blood. Of course the others didn't see this when they were 'examining' it around the table. It's then placed into a cardboard tube and pegged at both sides where is it later passed to Cook. So that's five people now who have handled the moderator and the blood would seem to still be in tact at this point. However, once at the lab, the hair is gone and the description of the blood turns to a 'smear' with no mention of dried fragments being found in the packaging.

Thanks forn that Caroline. It's confirmed my suspicion that when written down it reads like a rubbish story

[maggie]

If it wasnt so tragac it would be hilarious caroline.  Did no one notice how rediculous
This chain of events was??  Didnt EP even question these statements?  How were they ever accepted as hard evidence?  Time I went to Spain!! 

[maggie]

Any one wonderimg where susies gone I think the builder has hit the elevttic cable and shes offline for at least a day.

[Jane]

Any one wonderimg where susies gone I think the builder has hit the elevttic cable and shes offline for at least a day.

Oh dear I hope she'll be alright without us. Come back soon, Susan.

[susan]

Hi Maggie/April  The builder/contractor has not as yet hit the phone cable I had to rush for bird seed as I was totally out and the birds waiting for their supper.  All quiet on house site till tomorrow the electric cable worries more than phone

[Jane]

Hi Maggie/April  The builder/contractor has not as yet hit the phone cable I had to rush for bird seed as I was totally out and the birds waiting for their supper.  All quiet on house site till tomorrow the electric cable worries more than phone

Try to remember not to put your fingers in the sockets. Susan

[susan]

april maybe some would prefer me to do just that.  When that JCB is working next door to me I am a nervous wreck as the driver is deaf short sighted and anything else I may think of lets throw in careless but CHEAP

[Steve_uk]

Forgive me for dredging up an old thread,but I was wondering how people cope with bereavement and whether it's different for those who have experienced loss under such tragic and inexplicable circumstances as Colin,or whether it's easier to accept the death of an elderly relative dying through natural causes,and whether we all go through the stages of grief as described by Elizabeth Kubler-Ross here: http://www.businessballs.com/elisabeth_kubler_ross_five_stages_of_grief.htm

It seems that on the surface Colin has accepted his loss and moved on,to use that hackneyed phrase,but there must be times during those long,dark nights that he wakes up in a cold sweat when some trigger has brought the nightmare back,if only momentarily.

I also thought upon reading Colin's book just what a loss the twins must have been to him. A product of two handsome parents they were stars in their own right and their conversations when discussing hunger in the Third World for example were beyond their age in years. Of course Sheila did at times destroy some of Colin's work and one also wonders whether this trait could be inherited,yet there is no evidence for this anywhere. When one looks at a sample of Colin's work it is varied,with an emphasis in some works on the human form and its connection to the outside world both cerebral and physical.

http://gtsimages.zenfolio.com/p465292163/h275f0e43#h32e2a3bb

http://www.belgraviagallery.com/artist/colin-caffell/work/Colin%20Caffellwork/Colin%20Caffellwork/?page=2