The Relationship Between Adoptive Mother/June and Adopted Daughter/Sheila

[Jane]

Hi April/lookout/NN  I am not surprised June found the fact she would never conceive very difficult to deal with.  It is a very hard thing to come to terms with for most women.   I can assure you, from my own experiences that the need for children and the inability to have them can colour every part of your life and if June was so badly affected then it certainly mattered hugely to her.   
Childlessness is a very difficult thing for many women to deal with we all grow up believing we will eventually have children of our own, it's a very strong biological urge for the majority of women and also a proof of their feminimity.  In time most women come to terms with the disappointment of not being able to conceive and try to adopt children, these days it's a difficult process and of course nowadays the problems can be solved by IVF in many instances.
I can assure you that adopted children are not usually better than nothing, a disappointed second choice but are loved for who they are and what they bring to their adopted parents.  Of course it doesn't always work like that but there is no proof that June was a 'disappointed' mother.  She may have found showing love difficult, she may have had all sorts of religious hang ups which clouded her vision but none of that means she was coerced into having children or that Sheila and Jeremy were in any way second best in her eyes.

Maggie, hello and many thanks for your input. We will never know what were Junes thoughts on adoption but we have two very different takes on what they may have been and both could be true, as could a mix of the two. I think the one thing on which we would both agree is that being her daughter couldn't have been easy.

[maggie]

Hi lookout, the hiring of help with babies seems to have been the natural way of things for each generation of the Bambers no doubt in the same way as boarding school was. It was just the way it was?  My Aunt had twin girls many, many years ago, looking after 2 demanding babies without any support nearly finished her off so I would imagine Sheila was glad of her help.

[maggie]

Maggie, hello and many thanks for your input. We will never know what were Junes thoughts on adoption but we have two very different takes on what they may have been and both could be true, as could a mix of the two. I think the one thing on which we would both agree is that being her daughter couldn't have been easy.

Hi april,  I do agree that Sheila had a rough ride and a very difficult relationship with June as she became an adolescent, Jeremy has stated that she was a happy child??  As NN has said she had a very difficult start with at least 3 different carers in a very short time and June certainly didn't seem able to understand that times had changed  enormously since her own youth.
The fact is we don't know at all what drove June to adopt but having been in a similar situation myself I cannot help but at least give her the benefit of the doubt.

[Jane]

Hi april1,



.........Because whatever the motivations it caused an incredible amount of bad feeling within the

wider family because the relatives realized that the non-blood adoptees would inherit June's

families fortune. A chunk they would have inherited themselves save for these adoptions.

I think that within Farming families this would have been greatly disliked.

Summer

Summer, I entirely agree with all you've listed, but the one which, IMO, stands out as being behind the case, above and beyond ALL the rest, is the above.

I have a friend who is one of the dearest, kindest, most generous men I know. He is head of a large family who have farmed for generations and whilst I was discussing this with him he openly stated that he thinks it perfectly correct that adopted children should NOT have the same entitlements to family wealth as biological children. He was quite shocked when I told him that the law states that they do. Blood ties and the sense of "family" still run very deep.

[Jo]

I think June and Neville were (without any disrespect meant) 'products of their time' in that my Grandparents would have been the same age, they didn't particularly show open affection and lived in a certain way, you did what your parents told you, you were good at school and church, you left school and went in the forces or had a job, then you got married, had children and taught them the same and my Nan can't (even now) understand that people don't get married of sometimes divorce, have sex outside a marriage (even though she HAD (!!) to get married) and might not have a job etc-in other words the world is changing and while they stay the same, Neville reminds me of my Granddad in that he probably just accepted things and didn't want a fight, June probably wasn't backwards at coming forward which probably caused more hassle than it solved and she probably told Sheila off because of her lifestyle and tried to put the fear of God into her, not realising it wouldn't achieve anything and make things worse.
I don't think the issue is about the children being adopted, I think June and Neville treated Sheila and Jeremy the same as they would have been their own but I think when you find out that your adopted, you have a curiosity of perhaps wanting to know what your birth family would have been like.
I have 2 half brothers who were adopted out and whilst I have always known one and we have a good relationship with as much as if we'd grown up together, I know who the other is and have not met him and I have no desire to do so, I have said by all mean don't make out I don't exist but I don't want direct contact with him at this time, it's just a personal preference for me and I don't know what either my sister or half brother think-if anything. I also maintain a good relationship with my brothers' half sister and brother.

[Jane]

Hi april,  I do agree that Sheila had a rough ride and a very difficult relationship with June as she became an adolescent, Jeremy has stated that she was a happy child??  As NN has said she had a very difficult start with at least 3 different carers in a very short time and June certainly didn't seem able to understand that times had changed  enormously since her own youth.
The fact is we don't know at all what drove June to adopt but having been in a similar situation myself I cannot help but at least give her the benefit of the doubt.

Maggie, wouldn't it be in teresting to know by what frame of reference Jeremy judged her to be a "happy child" and what being happy meant to him. I'm minded of Bowlby's views on separation when a child had to be hospitalized and found itself without "Mummy". Initially, fear would cause it to scream, after a while, when screaming didn't make mummy appear, the child would become "difficult", spitting out food, having tantrums and being generally disruptive. After a time, this behaviour stopped and the child became compliant and the ward Sister would report the the child was "behaving itself well". It's now recognized that this compliant stage is actually depression. Sheila had suffered three separations so when Jeremy says she was "happy" maybe he means that she was simply appearing to be good and not making a fuss.

[maggie]

Maggie, good morning Perhaps you can tell me. Is there a difference between POC and a one off cyst on a ovary which can be cured by removing cyst and or ovary, and do we know which of them applied to June?

Hi April
POC is a condition mainly caused by imbalance in female hormones which is very difficult to cure.  It causes large amounts of small cysts to erupt on the surface of the ovary.  It causes severe problems with ovulation and therefore makes  conception difficult or impossible.
Ovarian cysts are also often caused by an imbalance of hormones, there are many different types of cysts. Some cysts appear and disappear in one cycle.  Some ovarian cysts are huge but benign while others are malignant, this is known as ovarian cancer.  Ovarian cancer is a viscious silent killer which can attack at any age although most common after the menopause.  This was the cause of my infertility at the age of 26 but I was very, very lucky and I survived thanks to the Middlesex Hospital and the wonderful Dr Margaret Spittle OBE, Oncologist.

[maggie]

Maggie, wouldn't it be in teresting to know by what frame of reference Jeremy judged her to be a "happy child" and what being happy meant to him. I'm minded of Bowlby's views on separation when a child had to be hospitalized and found itself without "Mummy". Initially, fear would cause it to scream, after a while, when screaming didn't make mummy appear, the child would become "difficult", spitting out food, having tantrums and being generally disruptive. After a time, this behaviour stopped and the child became compliant and the ward Sister would report the the child was "behaving itself well". It's now recognized that this compliant stage is actually depression. Sheila had suffered three separations so when Jeremy says she was "happy" maybe he means that she was simply appearing to be good and not making a fuss.

I agree April, that is very possible and the norm for one child is very different than for another. Children accept their world and love mothers even those who abuse.  We just simply don't know the answer do we?  

[Jane]

Hi April
POC is a condition mainly caused by imbalance in female hormones which is very difficult to cure.  It causes large amounts of small cysts to erupt on the surface of the ovary.  It causes severe problems with ovulation and therefore makes  conception difficult or impossible.
Ovarian cysts are also often caused by an imbalance of hormones, there are many different types of cysts. Some cysts appear and disappear in one cycle.  Some ovarian cysts are huge but benign while others are malignant, this is known as ovarian cancer.  Ovarian cancer is a viscious silent killer which can attack at any age although most common after the menopause.  This was the cause of my infertility at the age of 26 but I was very, very lucky and I survived thanks to the Middlesex Hospital and the wonderful Dr Margaret Spittle, Oncologist.

Maggie, many thanks for that. This sounds like a condition which at best is fairly serious and at worst is off the scale dangerous to the point of being life threatening. Dr F gives no hint that June's condition was that serious, in fact, he sounds almost dismissive of it but I suppose that a psychiatrist's main interest isn't likely to be in gynaecology.

[maggie]

Maggie, many thanks for that. This sounds like a condition which at best is fairly serious and at worst is off the scale dangerous to the point of being life threatening. Dr F gives no hint that June's condition was that serious, in fact, he sounds almost dismissive of it but I suppose that a psychiatrist's main interest isn't likely to be in gynaecology.

Not at all April.  I met a few psychiatrists when a nurse and they were a strange bunch in those days   I doubt he would have taken such illness into consideration.  I could tell you some tales about the attitude of male doctors to this kind of condition in the 1970s which were quite unbelievable.  These days they do at least try harder.

[lookout]

Not at all April.  I met a few psychiatrists when a nurse and they were a strange bunch in those days   I doubt he would have taken such illness into consideration.  I could tell you some tales about the attitude of male doctors to this kind of condition in the 1970s which were quite unbelievable.  These days they do at least try harder.

I remember some years ago,,a psychiatrist telling a patient that her problem was in the " basement " as opposed to the " attic ".

[Jane]

I remember some years ago,,a psychiatrist telling a patient that her problem was in the " basement " as opposed to the " attic ".

It used to be said that those who wished to be psychiatrists were half mad already, and those who qualified were more mad than those they treated. I would agree that a prime requisite is the ability to think outside the box.

[lookout]

It used to be said that those who wished to be psychiatrists were half mad already, and those who qualified were more mad than those they treated. I would agree that a prime requisite is the ability to think outside the box.

Some of them were bordering on potty,April. I used to call them potty professors,,after the then Jerry Lewis film.

[maggie]

I remember some years ago,,a psychiatrist telling a patient that her problem was in the " basement " as opposed to the " attic ".

lookout  that just about says it all!!

[Jane]

I remember some years ago,,a psychiatrist telling a patient that her problem was in the " basement " as opposed to the " attic ".

Lookout, isn't that going right back to Freud's core belief of the uterus being the seat of all female problems. Perhaps the psychiatrist you mention was one of his students :D