Main Bedroom

[Roch]

I posted previously about the bullets/order etc and within a week it was removed from the site, so not sure if I should repeat what I said, but here goes...

If it wasn't Sheila...

The scenario works if the boys are first and second, re-load,
drag Sheila from the main bed (yes on Nevill's side) shoot her once,
June is lying on her front, shots to her in the bed (match injuries) but she remains conscious
either Sheila or June or both make a noise
Nevill is in the upstairs office or another bedroom, alerted and comes along the landing
Nevill is shot on landing at least once - cartridge by architraving outside main bedroom door and blood-   
         spattered carpet outside Sheila's bedroom door
Struggle with Nevill who is shot again ? times
Nevill escapes downstairs - to phone? to other guns? - and shot at over the bannisters
Killer pursues to kitchen - Nevill shot again?
Chamber empty.
Nevill beaten with gun.
Reload. Kill Nevill
Back upstairs
Kill June and Sheila.

The empty chamber doesn't matter. The killer could have emptied it.

I apologise if the above appears insensitive, but the actual 'killings' are what we are all skirting around.

 

I can buy it!

Same here.

[Newbury1]

I posted previously about the bullets/order etc and within a week it was removed from the site, so not sure if I should repeat what I said, but here goes...

If it wasn't Sheila...

The scenario works if the boys are first and second, re-load,
drag Sheila from the main bed (yes on Nevill's side) shoot her once,
June is lying on her front, shots to her in the bed (match injuries) but she remains conscious
either Sheila or June or both make a noise
Nevill is in the upstairs office or another bedroom, alerted and comes along the landing
Nevill is shot on landing at least once - cartridge by architraving outside main bedroom door and blood-   
         spattered carpet outside Sheila's bedroom door
Struggle with Nevill who is shot again ? times
Nevill escapes downstairs - to phone? to other guns? - and shot at over the bannisters
Killer pursues to kitchen - Nevill shot again?
Chamber empty.
Nevill beaten with gun.
Reload. Kill Nevill
Back upstairs
Kill June and Sheila.

The empty chamber doesn't matter. The killer could have emptied it.

I apologise if the above appears insensitive, but the actual 'killings' are what we are all skirting around.

 

I can buy it!

Same here.

mb1 - who is your killer (or killers) in this scenario?

[mb1]

I posted previously about the bullets/order etc and within a week it was removed from the site, so not sure if I should repeat what I said, but here goes...

If it wasn't Sheila...

The scenario works if the boys are first and second, re-load,
drag Sheila from the main bed (yes on Nevill's side) shoot her once,
June is lying on her front, shots to her in the bed (match injuries) but she remains conscious
either Sheila or June or both make a noise
Nevill is in the upstairs office or another bedroom, alerted and comes along the landing
Nevill is shot on landing at least once - cartridge by architraving outside main bedroom door and blood-   
         spattered carpet outside Sheila's bedroom door
Struggle with Nevill who is shot again ? times
Nevill escapes downstairs - to phone? to other guns? - and shot at over the bannisters
Killer pursues to kitchen - Nevill shot again?
Chamber empty.
Nevill beaten with gun.
Reload. Kill Nevill
Back upstairs
Kill June and Sheila.

The empty chamber doesn't matter. The killer could have emptied it.

I apologise if the above appears insensitive, but the actual 'killings' are what we are all skirting around.

 

I can buy it!

Same here.

mb1 - who is your killer (or killers) in this scenario?

Whoever put the gun in Sheila's hands.

And that's why I return to the known phone call to the police.

[Newbury1]

  - say no more!

[chelmsey]

MB1. I agree with your scenario aswell. As I have stated before,I have always had a feeling that Sheila had gone to bed in her parents bed that night.And I think also that a certain someone knew this to be the case.I dont believe that Sheila was in any of the other rooms that night after she had gone to bed.Your scenario makes perfect sense and I think it is as pretty damn near to the truth as we are ever going to get.Top marks to you 

[shonapugs]

This scenario certainly works for me, except possibly the bit about June lying on her front. Would that not be an uncomfortable position for an elderly lady? I can imagine June either lying on her back, maybe reading her bible, or on her side facing a troubled Sheila. But as I write this, I know I'm sounding picky. Do you think that we might be getting a bit closer to the truth?

[Kaldin]

June was not shot in the back was she?

I still Nevill must have been shot whilst he was in bed because of the position of the empty cartridges. If he was shot near the door then the cartridges near the door cannot be attributed to June.

[mb1]

Re the shots in the main bedroom - I just can't see that Nevill was shot anywhere but in bed. Most of the cartridges are clustered around the side of the bed near the main door, and they weren't all associated with June, so surely Nevill must have been shot when he was in bed or standing up by the side of the bed.

Is there any way to check if there was blood on his side of the bed?

Well the official line is that there was no blood from Nevill in the bedroom, so I don't see how one could check.  We know there was blood on his side of the room - perhaps the patch below the bible was Sheila's.  It would seem strange for evidence of his blood or any blood on that side of the bed to have been withheld so personally I don't think there can have been much.  We know there was some on the wall of the main stairs, and on the doorjamb from the hall to the kitchen and of course in the kitchen itself.  Perhaps he was shot on his way downstaris while the perpetrator was standing in the bedroom.

There were allegedly 8 cartridges clustered around the right hand side of the bed which suggests the killer was firing at people in the bed. There are another three nearer the door, two of which have been attributed to shots at June. There's another on the main stairs, which allegedly came from the kitchen on someone's shoe.

Take a look - it doesn't make sense. Am I to believe that Nevill was shot four times and didn't bleed at all?

Also, why are there two cartridges called DRH7?

re the cartridge/bullet diagram - does anyone know where the blue arrow line comes from?

[shonapugs]

Look at what we've got. The boys dispatched quickly, thank God - they didn't even move. Then June was shot clumsily, the killer underestimated her strength, and had to shoot her again, Ralph was in a different part of the house and when he realised what was happening he tried to get help, but was stopped, and Sheila was hiding, rigid with fear, and was killed. The killer had a short time to stage Sheila's body with the gun and bible. And then get away. How else could a gun and a bible be placed so strategically on Sheila's body? Mike, I'm sure you've got lots to say.

[chelmsey]

Look at what we've got. The boys dispatched quickly, thank God - they didn't even move. Then June was shot clumsily, the killer underestimated her strength, and had to shoot her again, Ralph was in a different part of the house and when he realised what was happening he tried to get help, but was stopped, and Sheila was hiding, rigid with fear, and was killed. The killer had a short time to stage Sheila's body with the gun and bible. And then get away. How else could a gun and a bible be placed so strategically on Sheila's body? Mike, I'm sure you've got lots to say.

IMO I think that Sheila was stunned or unconsious after the first shot and thats what kept her where she was until she sustained the second shot as opposed to her hiding anywhere.

[shonapugs]

Oakey Doakey, If that works for you. That was the original scenario. But I find it hard to imagine Sheila shooting herself, and all the shock and pain that that would entail, and then having the wherewithal to rouse herself and stage the bible/gun/hand placement in the main bedroom. She wasn't superhuman......

[chelmsey]

Also.I could be wrong but it seems to me that June was laying on her side in bed.Im wondering if the shots that June received in bed seem so clumsy as it may have been dark in there.Assuming nobody switched the light on at that time,the curtains were not closed.so the killer may have had only moonlight coming in from the window or light from,say,the landing in which to  see the target.

[chelmsey]

Oakey Doakey, If that works for you. That was the original scenario. But I find it hard to imagine Sheila shooting herself, and all the shock and pain that that would entail, and then having the wherewithal to rouse herself and stage the bible/gun/hand placement in the main bedroom. She wasn't superhuman......

Thats probably because,in MB1s scenario,it isnt Sheila that shoots herself.

[shonapugs]

No, Chelmsey, I don't think that Sheila did shoot herself. I think that by the time the killer got to her, she was so paralysed with fear, she did as she was told. What else could she do?

[mb1]

Look at what we've got. The boys dispatched quickly, thank God - they didn't even move. Then June was shot clumsily, the killer underestimated her strength, and had to shoot her again, Ralph was in a different part of the house and when he realised what was happening he tried to get help, but was stopped, and Sheila was hiding, rigid with fear, and was killed. The killer had a short time to stage Sheila's body with the gun and bible. And then get away. How else could a gun and a bible be placed so strategically on Sheila's body? Mike, I'm sure you've got lots to say.

And

Look at what we've got. The boys dispatched quickly, thank God - they didn't even move. Then June was shot clumsily, the killer underestimated her strength, and had to shoot her again, Ralph was in a different part of the house and when he realised what was happening he tried to get help, but was stopped, and Sheila was hiding, rigid with fear, and was killed. The killer had a short time to stage Sheila's body with the gun and bible. And then get away. How else could a gun and a bible be placed so strategically on Sheila's body? Mike, I'm sure you've got lots to say.

IMO I think that Sheila was stunned or inconsious after the first shot and thats what kept her where she was until she sustained the second shot as opposed to her hiding anywhere.

Think you're both right.
The pathologist said the first shot was potentially fatal, just not immediately so.

She may have drifted in and out of consciousness - difficulty breathing? hence fingerprints as she tried to plug the hole to the side of her throat - and when she was 'alert' I'm sure there were sounds and smells etc, in addition to her own state, that would have made her rigid with fear. Plus desperately worried about her boys.

It's just too horrible to contemplate.