Whose Bloodied right hand palm print was left on pages of bible?

[Jane]

Alias/Caroline MANY congratulations to both of you, and thanks too. AT LAST, the penny has dropped and I can now see exactly what you've been trying to say. An almost perfect hand print located in two places an fitting like a jigsaw.

[Caroline R]

That is hardly an area that could be called her palm though is it? In fact to me the ball of the thumb is the fleshy part inside the hand, a part of the palm, all we can see in these photos is the edge of her thumb at best.

And it has blood on it. The fact that it does (and you can see it does) makes it more (not less) likely that it extends to the inside of her palm.

[Jane]

That is hardly an area that could be called her palm though is it? In fact to me the ball of the thumb is the fleshy part inside the hand, a part of the palm, all we can see in these photos is the edge of her thumb at best.

Well no, Bridget, it isn't, but as the blood which can be seen on the edge of the ball of the thumb doesn't appear to have run downwards from the top of her hand, unless there is NO blood anywhere else, it must mean that there is more under her hand where it can't be seen.

[Steve_uk]

Looking at Sheila's right hand, you can see blood on the ball part of her thumb and there is what looks like black marks on the back of her hand. This hand is anything but clean.

The black marks could have transferred to her hand when Jeremy put his hand in hers leading her into the master bedroom after his scuffle with Nevill near the Aga in the kitchen.

[Caroline R]

Well no, Bridget, it isn't, but as the blood which can be seen on the edge of the ball of the thumb doesn't appear to have run downwards from the top of her hand, unless there is NO blood anywhere else, it must mean that there is more under her hand where it can't be seen.

Thanks April, I thought I was going mad and glad you can now see the hand print - I think it's totes amazeballs!! 

[Bridget]

And it has blood on it. The fact that it does (and you can see it does) makes it more (not less) likely that it extends to the inside of her palm.

Ha ha! Maybe in your mind, certainly not in mine.

So we have what might be a palm print (from any one of 4 people including JB) which we match with what might be finger marks (but the pathologist disagrees), jump to the conclusion that they must both be Sheila's (even though according to at least one police officer and a pathologist there was no blood on either her palms or fingers, and no blood was on the cartridges, the cartridge box, or in a corresponding place on the murder weapon) et voila! everyone is wrong / lying and JB is innocent!

I think there's a very good reason why the defence avoided this issue like the plague.

[Bridget]

Well no, Bridget, it isn't, but as the blood which can be seen on the edge of the ball of the thumb doesn't appear to have run downwards from the top of her hand, unless there is NO blood anywhere else, it must mean that there is more under her hand where it can't be seen.

How do you know there was enough blood there to run anywhere? I think it's quite likely that what we can see is pretty much what there is. You certainly can't tell otherwise from these photos.

[Caroline R]

Ha ha! Maybe in your mind, certainly not in mine.

So we have what might be a palm print (from any one of 4 people including JB) which we match with what might be finger marks (but the pathologist disagrees), jump to the conclusion that they must both be Sheila's (even though according to at least one police officer and a pathologist there was no blood on either her palms or fingers, and no blood was on the cartridges, the cartridge box, or in a corresponding place on the murder weapon) et voila! everyone is wrong / lying and JB is innocent!

I think there's a very good reason why the defence avoided this issue like the plague.

And you of course, are enitled to your opinion - like I said, you don't have to buy into it. But I can see blood on the ball of her thumb - I have pretty good eye sight, I'm not going mad - it's there. The print on the bible does fit with with the marks on the nighdress but again - you don't have to agree. But in my book seeing is believing!!

[lookout]

That print isn't big enogh for a male.They tend to have wider hands. That has got to be Sheilas' slender hand,,complete with three fingers.

[Jane]

How do you know there was enough blood there to run anywhere? I think it's quite likely that what we can see is pretty much what there is. You certainly can't tell otherwise from these photos.

I guess if the blood which had previously been on her hand became transferred to her nightdress and bible, there would have been no more than a stain left on her hand and it wouldn't have run.

[lookout]

The black marks could have transferred to her hand when Jeremy put his hand in hers leading her into the master bedroom after his scuffle with Nevill near the Aga in the kitchen.

The soot on the back of her hand would have been off the poker that she prodded her father with.

[Caroline R]

The soot on the back of her hand would have been off the poker that she prodded her father with.

OR it's gun oil? (maybe)

[Alias]

I have a theory about how this mark on bible and nightgown came about. Some will say it is far out, but so many things are - the crimescene in and of itself is far out and even more so the handling of it by police. So I take a deep breath and throw it out there.
I think that after the first shot, which obviously was not fatal, Sheila immediately and automatically moved her right hand up to her wound. Blood poured from it to her hand and down her lower arm.
Here I have some experience and have seen blood pool EXACTLY as the blood on Sheila´s lower arm (which some think are scratch-marks, I don´t). My husband had a sudden and violent nosebleed. He leaned forward and quick as lightning put his arm up to his nose. I saw, with my own two eyes, how the blood ran down his lower arm JUST LIKE THE STREAMS ON SHEILA´S ARM! To my amazement, the bloodstreams stopped and pooled half-way - yes, just like on Sheila´s arm. The blood dried very quickly, that was odd, but it did. Wish I had taken a picture, but that would have peed my husband off maybe a tad.... LOL, I just sat there staring at it as it was. Another detail: he didn´t get one single drop of blood on the front of his white shirt - drops on the floor though.
So, I think that POSSIBLY Sheila put her hand on the bible she had with her to gather strength after this, and then fired again, this time "successfully".
There should be blood traces on the rifle in the trigger area with this theory, there probably was. How couldn´t there have been in any case, whether Sheila did it or Jeremy. The handling of evidence leaves a lot of room for theories like this one of mine! 

[Caroline R]

I have a theory about how this mark on bible and nightgown came about. Some will say it is far out, but so many things are - the crimescene in and of itself is far out and even more so the handling of it by police. So I take a deep breath and throw it out there.
I think that after the first shot, which obviously was not fatal, Sheila immediately and automatically moved her right hand up to her wound. Blood poured from it to her hand and down her lower arm.
Here I have some experience and have seen blood pool EXACTLY as the blood on Sheila´s lower arm (which some think are scratch-marks, I don´t). My husband had a sudden and violent nosebleed. He leaned forward and quick as lightning put his arm up to his nose. I saw, with my own two eyes, how the blood ran down his lower arm JUST LIKE THE STREAMS ON SHEILA´S ARM! To my amazement, the bloodstreams stopped and pooled half-way - yes, just like on Sheila´s arm. The blood dried very quickly, that was odd, but it did. Wish I had taken a picture, but that would have peed my husband off maybe a tad.... LOL, I just sat there staring at it as it was. Another detail: he didn´t get one single drop of blood on the front of his white shirt - drops on the floor though.
So, I think that POSSIBLY Sheila put her hand on the bible she had with her to gather strength after this, and then fired again, this time "successfully".
There should be blood traces on the rifle in the trigger area with this theory, there probably was. How couldn´t there have been in any case, whether Sheila did it or Jeremy. The handling of evidence leaves a lot of room for theories like this one of mine! 

My thoughts have been on very similar lines, so similar infact that I wouldn't change a thing!!

[Alias]

My thoughts have been on very similar lines, so similar infact that I wouldn't change a thing!!

That is a relief!