Who Bled here?

[Patti]

Well, of course it is theoretically possible to purchase a particular opinion from an expert, although I wonder how much you'd have to pay for someone like him to risk their reputation. But it seems clear that JB was warned that he would be blunt in his findings, and he was.

I wrote to N. Robinson last night.  What I find odd is the fact Jeremy was exchanging letters to Macdonnell 2 years prior to Nick Robinson receiving a report form Macdonnell.  I feel confident in saying that 2 years to wait for a report is a long time.  However, it is clear that all persons involved had their paws in liaising with Macdonnell at some point. 

If Jeremy and Ewan had paid and sent all photo's etc then way didn't Macdonnell send the report to them. 

I agree with you so far Bridget and that it was possible that Robinson and Roger Wilkes may have followed up their investigation and paid for the report to be done in the interest of Wilkes writing his book..2 years later after the original inquiry from Jeremy. 

However, it does not alter the fact that Macdonnell was asked to evaluate the situation based on the fact that the silencer was fitted to the rifle....Macdonnell does not make any evaluation regarding the silencer not fitted...and the fact he does not address all the evidence in his preliminary report.  I feel a more in depth study would have been better. 

I really need to read this book....

[Lugg]

Well, of course it is theoretically possible to purchase a particular opinion from an expert, although I wonder how much you'd have to pay for someone like him to risk their reputation. But it seems clear that JB was warned that he would be blunt in his findings, and he was.

But as I explained before, his findings were incomplete.

[lookout]

But as I explained before, his findings were incomplete.

Nothing appeared to be beyond reasonable doubt to me.

[Bridget]

But as I explained before, his findings were incomplete.

Yes, because his interim report didn't suit the defence and so they didn't pay for further investigation (which of course goes against the suggestion that he would say whatever the highest bidder wants him to say).

If Jeremy and Ewan had paid and sent all photo's etc then way didn't Macdonnell send the report to them. 

Because the report was commissioned and paid for by Robinson / Wilkes.

[Patti]

Yes, because his interim report didn't suit the defence and so they didn't pay for further investigation (which of course goes against the suggestion that he would say whatever the highest bidder wants him to say).

Because the report was commissioned and paid for by Robinson / Wilkes.

Exactly! based on the rifle having a silencer fitted, therefore the report is a biased one and does not cover the possibility of the silencer not fitted. 

Bridget does Wilkes refer to this report in depth in his book?   

[Lugg]

Yes, because his interim report didn't suit the defence and so they didn't pay for further investigation (which of course goes against the suggestion that he would say whatever the highest bidder wants him to say)..........

No that wasn't what I was referring to when I said they were incomplete. This is what I wrote before:

Unfortunately he had only the photographs to go by. He was at several disadvantages, in that he could not really tell if the blood spots were made by mrs Bamber walking around the room or Sheila Caffell as he could not test the different blood groups.
Also if the blood streaks from Sheila's right arm were travelling downwards towards her elbow then this indicates that her arm was vertical at that time. Therefore she could not have received the first shot lying down.
Again he was at a disadvantage in that he could not tell if the palm or thumb of her right hand was bloodied or not. Therefore how could his findings be conclusive?

[Patti]

Lugg quoted:

Unfortunately he had only the photographs to go by. He was at several disadvantages, in that he could not really tell if the blood spots were made by mrs Bamber walking around the room or Sheila Caffell as he could not test the different blood groups.
Also if the blood streaks from Sheila's right arm were travelling downwards towards her elbow then this indicates that her arm was vertical at that time. Therefore she could not have received the first shot lying down.
Again he was at a disadvantage in that he could not tell if the palm or thumb of her right hand was bloodied or not. Therefore how could his findings be conclusive?

Well said Lugg, he was at a disadvantage and in my opinion whether they regarding him as being a god in forensic science or not, he did not have the whole picture at his disposal, therefore the report is an inaccurate one...based on limited information. 

[Bridget]

Exactly! based on the rifle having a silencer fitted, therefore the report is a biased one and does not cover the possibility of the silencer not fitted. 

Bridget does Wilkes refer to this report in depth in his book?   

I wouldn't say in depth, there's a couple of pages about Macdonell himself and JB / Wilkes contact with him, and then a couple of pages which summarise the findings from the report.

Anyone not viewing the bodies in situ is clearly at a disadvantage but there's really not much that can be done about that. Whether or not his report is inaccurate would be something to be tested in court, if it ever got there, but he seems to be pretty near the top in his field. He was asked his opinion on the photos and other evidence provided to him and he gave it.

[lookout]

Never,ever view people as Gods,,,because they're not,,neither are they infallible. Look at the once famous,,now infamous Professor Sir Roy Meadow,,along with the  criminal Pathologist Alan Williams. ?

[lookout]

Never,ever view people as Gods,,,because they're not,,neither are they infallible. Look at the once famous,,now infamous Professor Sir Roy Meadow,,along with the  criminal Pathologist Alan Williams. ?

Two once " powerful " characters in the world of crime,,,,but brought down to earth by their gross misconduct, discredited evidence and wrongful opinions,leading to the imprisonment of a few women who were wrongfully found guilty of murdering their children.Cases are still continuing,where convictions are either in dispute or have been overturned.

[susan]

lookout  I have had it from good authority that Taff Jones was a really good cop and very genuine.

[Patti]

Lets look at this comment made by Macdonell:

( When her arm was positioned to where it was later found, blood from her fingers, or the fingers of whoever was moving her arm, wiped against her nightgown producing the bloody finger marks that are shown in photograph 29. The large quantity of blood that had pooled between her right arm and upper body was released when her arm was moved. This blood ran down over the lateral aspects of her right arm as shown in photographs 27 and 29.

Obviously he was unaware that it was the police who moved her arm so they could see the blood stain that was behind it....If he had known this, then this comment would have been different.  He could only have come to the conclusion that Sheila was the only one that could have wiped her fingers on her night dress and not the police who had moved her arm....This proves that insufficient information had been relayed to Macdonell.....He could have only been excepted to answer questions proposed to him by someone unfamiliar to the facts....

[lookout]

lookout  I have had it from good authority that Taff Jones was a really good cop and very genuine.

Susan,,,believe me,,,I can see it in his face/eyes. How very sad it was, that his life ended in the way it did.

[Patti]

If we then look at this:

(12) The rifle found over Sheila Caffells body was placed in the position in which it was found. It has been reported that a rifle, found in another room in the house, had blood of the same group as Sheila Caffell in its sound moderator. The length of this rifle, from the end of the sound moderator to the trigger, is some thirty six inches. This distance is too great for Sheila Caffell to have self-inflicted her two neck wounds. Therefore, Sheila Caffell did not shoot herself. Like the other four victims, Sheila Caffell was murdered.

It is not surprising that Macdonell bases his conclusion without knowing that the police had removed the rifle and that the rifle had not got the silencer fixed to the rifle when she was found.  Surely, a man of his distinction, would have noted that the photograph in question that he was looking at, had a rifle without a moderator attached.  Yet he made a final analysis based believing that this was the case. 

Bridget the defence would have a field day with this report...To me it is inconclusive.   

[Bridget]

Lets look at this comment made by Macdonell:

( When her arm was positioned to where it was later found, blood from her fingers, or the fingers of whoever was moving her arm, wiped against her nightgown producing the bloody finger marks that are shown in photograph 29. The large quantity of blood that had pooled between her right arm and upper body was released when her arm was moved. This blood ran down over the lateral aspects of her right arm as shown in photographs 27 and 29.

Obviously he was unaware that it was the police who moved her arm so they could see the blood stain that was behind it....If he had known this, then this comment would have been different.  He could only have come to the conclusion that Sheila was the only one that could have wiped her fingers on her night dress and not the police who had moved her arm....This proves that insufficient information had been relayed to Macdonell.....He could have only been excepted to answer questions proposed to him by someone unfamiliar to the facts....

Yes I agree, but JB was in control of the information given to him, so who's fault is that? If he wasn't in control of it he surely would have said so once the report was made public.