The Big Lie - about use of sound moderator on barrel of family rifle...

[bigdave1975]

I dont want to go out but its my grainds birthday.

[susan]

Hi bigdave  thought it was your mates 40th birthday.  Bet you rather stay here with us and have some fun

[mike tesko]

Hi Mike  thanks for that.  I do get confused with all these silencers and I always thought the silencer hidden in the cupboard and found by DB was the one that helped to convict poor Jeremy Bamber as Sheila's blood was found inside it and that proved she could not have shot herself.  Have I got this all wrong.  Nothing straight forward with this case.

Hi Susan,

I agree that the silencer issue is very confusing, it is for this very reason that the prosecutiing authoritites, and its witnesses, have been able to pull the wool over everbodies eyes...

To clarify matters, allow me to suggest to you, and everyone else, to take the following approach:-

There are three different silencers involved in these investigations (SC/688/85 and SC/786/85), each one has its own unique exhibit reference, of SBJ/1 (22), DB/1(23) and DRB/1(23/22). Lets deal with the first of these three silencers (SBJ/1 (22) found at the scene by DS Jones on 7th August 1985. This silencer was owned by Essex police, it was fitted to a police issue weapon that was used by a Special branch officer, PS Woodcock, when he entered the kitchen inside the premises, at which stage there was an altercation between himself and Sheila, and she ended getting shot in the side of the neck by PS Woodcocks weapon. DS Jones was requested to re-attend the scene from Jeremy's cottage to collect this (SBJ/1) silencer because it was required for the forthcoming inrternal police investigation into Sheila's death, at the hands of police. As part of this internal police investigation, this silencer (SBJ/1) was sent to the lab' on 13th August 1985, to be examined by expert Glyinis Howard, before being returned to the police. Lab' records confirm that this particular silencer (SBJ/1 - lab' item number 22) was sent to the lab' and given back to police (never to surface again, as part of the official Bamber prosecution), so forget about this silencer for now, it played no further role in the case that was brought against Jeremy, other than documents at the lab', and elsewhere, were altered to make it appear that there was, and only ever had been only the one silencer...

Next...

Lets deal now with the silencer (DB/1) owned by Anthony Pargeter...

This silencer (DB/1) was supposed to heve been kept at the scene by Pargeter, in a downstairs toilet along with his guns and other firearms accessories. But on the penultimate week-end before the shootings occurred, he took it and his .22 bolt action Bruno rifle home with him, so that it was not present at the scene when the shootings took place. Essex police went along to see Anthony Pargeter soon afterwards and questioned him about the whereabouts of his gun and silencer, on the 7th August 1985. The police examined his Bruno rifle for damage to see if it could have been used in the shootings, and they took away his silencer (DB/1). This was the silencer which on 30th August 1985, was sent by police along to the Lab' at Huntingdon, inside which the crucial flake of blood bearing the blood group activity, A EAP BA, AK1 and HP 2-1 was later discovered. This silencer (DB/1 - lab' item number 23) remained at the lab' until the trial which did not take place until October 1986). Now forget this for a moment...

Next...

On 10th August 1985, relatives attend the farmhouse and David Boutflour finds the silencer (DRB/1) in the gun cupboard, in the downstairs office. Police collect it, and it ends up being retained by DCI "Taff" Jones and kept on his desk at Witham police station. It was treated in this way because DCI Jones thought the relatives were trying to frame Jeremy for the murders. DCI Jones had thrown the relatives out of the police station telling them not to come back trying to tell the police how to go about thier business. This silencer (DRB/1) remained on DCI Jones desk at Witham police station, until after the nature of the investigation  (from SC/688/85 to SC/786/85) changed, at the beginning of September 1985. This is the silencer (DRB/1) which PC Whiddon, DS Eastwood, and DS Davidson, got involved with, and which got sent to the lab' on 25th September 1985, to be checked for blood and fibres...

Next...

In order to stand any chance of succeeding in prosecuting Jeremy Bamber form these murders, all three silencers were adminstratively referred to as one and the same silencer (SBJ/1, DB/1 and DRB/1), all official records were altered accordingly, to meet this proposition...

[andrea]

Mike, are you still of the opinion that Sheila didnt kill herself; and that her body was staged managed?

[mike tesko]

Mike, are you still of the opinion that Sheila didnt kill herself; and that her body was staged managed?

Hi Andrea,

Yes, although Jeremy disagrees with me on this point...

[andrea]

Thanks for that Mike.

[susan]

Hi Mike

Thank you so much for explaining all that to me as half of it is news to me.  I will sit now and digest it all as it is very complicated indeed but thank you so much for all the information. Much appreciated.

[Lugg]

Hi Lugg

if this silencer was found at the back of this very deep gun cupboard wonder what DB was looking for when he accidently found it.  Strange very strange.

Susan, what I'm getting at is that if one of Sheila's wounds were made with the silencer on, then it is more than likely that the silencer found in the gun cupboard belonged to the murder weapon. If that was so then there is more than a good chance that JB did it?

[susan]

Hi Lugg

if that was the case Jeremy would have cleaned the silencer before shoving to the back of the gun cupboard.

[Jane]

Mike, are you still of the opinion that Sheila didnt kill herself; and that her body was staged managed?

Mike, I've been through, several times, the information you've given us, and try as I might to get away from the thought, every time I come back to the same opinion, which is that Woodcock was holding the gun against Sheila's neck when the trigger was pulled. Is this how it happened or have I misread you and made a horrible mistake, for which my apologies in advance.

[lookout]

Susan, what I'm getting at is that if one of Sheila's wounds were made with the silencer on, then it is more than likely that the silencer found in the gun cupboard belonged to the murder weapon. If that was so then there is more than a good chance that JB did it?

 Lugg,,would you think that Jeremy just killed Sheila and not the others.?

[Reader]

Clearly, mike tesko is suggesting that Pc Woodcock was the first person to shoot Sheila. He hasn't offered a satisfactory explanation of why. If Sheila was unarmed, there was no need to shoot her in the throat. If she was armed, the most prudent action would have been to withdraw immediately, as Sheila could have been shot through the window if necessary. A third possibility is that Sheila tried to seize Pc Woodcock's rifle, but this would have been difficult if she was also armed. Perhaps Pc Woodcock simply acted somewhat irrationally in the heat of the moment. Until Pc Woodcock's original statements come to light, we probably won't know exactly why. Separately, mike tesko has suggested that the fatal shot that killed Sheila occurred accidentally, although there seems to be no evidence for this other than the word of an informant. No police officer has been named as being directly responsible for this accidental fatal shot.

If the above is roughly correct, we now need to explain why the police were so interested in other silencers, and especially how the jury were convinced that another silencer was used on that night. Was a silencer deliberately contaminated or purely accidentally or was the forensic evidence simply presented in a deliberately poor and misleading way? Also, we've yet to be given a coherent explanation of two strange facts: (1) the pathologist thought that some of the bullet entry wounds were appreciably larger than would be expected for .22 ammunition, and (2) bullet weights recorded at the lab suggest that at least two kinds of ammunition were used.

It's been suggested that the silencer was pressed against Sheila's neck when she was first shot. The only evidence for this is the circular appearance of marking around the lower wound. However, this marking is very slight, and suggests light contact or very close vicinity rather than contact involving significant pressure. I'd be interested to know whether the tests conducted in America considered and included these possibilities. If Sheila briefly scuffled with Pc Woodcock, no physical evidence has been mentioned that seems to correspond specifically to this scuffle.

I'm slightly surprised by references to the gun cupboard as being "very deep". The cupboard was under the rear stairs, so its depth was a bit less than the width of those stairs, not particularly deep. There was nothing to suggest the silencer was hidden; it was not loose, so it would not have been found unless a thorough search was made of the cupboard, and clearly the police didn't do that or they would have found a silencer there. Apparently, they were simply looking for the weapons that they had been told were usually kept in the farmhouse.

[Martin]

Something else whuch may fit in with this, is that when David Boutflour was interviewed by COLP in 1992, he was asked about the comments (aforementioned, by Anthony Pargeter), and David Boutflour gave a different sort of explanation for what could have been meant by what Pargeter was talking about - for example, David Boutflour spoke of the fact that when he found the Bamber family owned sound moderator in the gun cupboard at the scene on 10th August 1985, the family at first thought the police had missed finding it, or that if they had found it that they had left it there in the cupboard where it remained until he took possession of it later on. So, in this sense, the family thought that police had wrongly given it back to the family, wrong because they observed some red srticky stuff on the ned of it, whuch they thought might have been, or could be blood...

But Mike, according to Anthony Pargeter, David Boutflour told him that the silencer had paint on it. From a pro guilt point of view, there is an explanation of how paint from the aga surround had gotten onto the silencer, and it is held to be damning evidence of Bamber’s guilt.  On the other hand, if you are convinced that Jeremy is innocent, the paint on the silencer indicates evidence tampering and nothing less.

From a statement by Anthony Pargeter.

“Sometime after the 10 August 1985, I received a telephone call from David Boutflour who is a cousin of mine. He told me the silencer had been returned to the family, presumably by the police. He said there was a large scratch on it, some red paint on the knurled end and what appeared to be blood. I advised David to return it to the police straight away.

How could the silencer David Boutflour found have paint on it if it had never left that cupboard since before the murders. If it had paint on it, somebody must have removed it from the cupboard to scratch the aga with it and then put it back-possibly with further contamination added.

Could it be that Pargeter was telling the truth in his statement and that David Boutflour tried to explain it away as based on a misunderstanding.

On the other hand if Pargeter lied, he would have lied knowing full well that his lies could  easily be exposed merely by checking with Boutflour.


Could something like this have happened?

David Boutflour finds the silencer and assumes that the police have returned it-perhaps he had looked in that cupboard previously without having seen it, so he thinks “The police must have been here and put it back.” He notices the scratch, the paint and what appeared to blood. He doesn’t know what is going on. The police have not, as yet, explained to him their purpose in returning it. So he phones Anthony Pargeter, hence Pargeter’s statement.

Later, however, Pargeter’s statement becomes a serious embarrassment, just like Ann Eaton’s admission that a police officer told her that Sheila's body was found on the bed with a bible on her chest. Pargeter, just like Ann Eaton, had let the cat out of the bag, so David Boutflour, now fully aware of  the part played by the silencer he found in the prosecution’s case against Jeremy, has to think of something to say and therefore maintains that there was a slight misunderstanding between him and Pargeter. He didn’t really mean to say that the police had returned the silencer, but only that he thought that they had just left it there, possibly by mistake.

Pargeter’s statement, it seems, remains problematical.

If he’s telling the truth, then Boutflour did, indeed, notice paint on the silencer. If the silencer had remained in the cupboard since before the murders and no policeman had taken it from there, how did paint from the aga get onto it?

If Pargeter had made it all up, he would know that if Boutflour were questioned, as he surely would be he, Pargeter, would be exposed as having lied and that his friend would be none too pleased about being misrepresented. Apart from that, he could be charged with perverting the course of justice.

A misunderstanding can’t explain the highly detailed description of the silencer with paint on it allegedly given by Boutflour in the phonecall.

[shonapugs]

But Mike, according to Anthony Pargeter, David Boutflour told him that the silencer had paint on it. From a pro guilt point of view, there is an explanation of how paint from the aga surround had gotten onto the silencer, and it is held to be damning evidence of Bamber’s guilt.  On the other hand, if you are convinced that Jeremy is innocent, the paint on the silencer indicates evidence tampering and nothing less.

How could the silencer David Boutflour found have paint on it if it had never left that cupboard since before the murders. If it had paint on it, somebody must have removed it from the cupboard to scratch the aga with it and then put it back-possibly with further contamination added.

Could it be that Pargeter was telling the truth in his statement and that David Boutflour tried to explain it away as based on a misunderstanding.

On the other hand if Pargeter lied, he would have lied knowing full well that his lies could  easily be exposed merely by checking with Boutflour.


Could something like this have happened?

David Boutflour finds the silencer and assumes that the police have returned it-perhaps he had looked in that cupboard previously without having seen it, so he thinks “The police must have been here and put it back.” He notices the scratch, the paint and what appeared to blood. He doesn’t know what is going on. The police have not, as yet, explained to him their purpose in returning it. So he phones Anthony Pargeter, hence Pargeter’s statement.

Later, however, Pargeter’s statement becomes a serious embarrassment, just like Ann Eaton’s admission that a police officer told her that Sheila's body was found on the bed with a bible on her chest. Pargeter, just like Ann Eaton, had let the cat out of the bag, so David Boutflour, now fully aware of  the part played by the silencer he found in the prosecution’s case against Jeremy, has to think of something to say and therefore maintains that there was a slight misunderstanding between him and Pargeter. He didn’t really mean to say that the police had returned the silencer, but only that he thought that they had just left it there, possibly by mistake.

Pargeter’s statement, it seems, remains problematical.

If he’s telling the truth, then Boutflour did, indeed, notice paint on the silencer. If the silencer had remained in the cupboard since before the murders and no policeman had taken it from there, how did paint from the aga get onto it?

If Pargeter had made it all up, he would know that if Boutflour were questioned, as he surely would be he, Pargeter, would be exposed as having lied and that his friend would be none too pleased about being misrepresented. Apart from that, he could be charged with perverting the course of justice.

A misunderstanding can’t explain the highly detailed description of the silencer with paint on it allegedly given by Boutflour in the phonecall.

Amazing. Succinct. But it doesn't explain how Sheila caused so much damage, shot her entire family, then laid down and shot herself. then found a last bullet, and shot herself again. When she was comatose.
With a throat full of blood.

[shonapugs]

There was only one silencer. Just the one, Mike. Found at the back of the cupboard. You know it, we all know it. And only one phone call. Bamber, blaming Sheila.