Why the murders didnt take place around 3.30am

[Steve_uk]

How could you [ hope }  that death would follow ?

From the angle of the bullet going into the brain. Death was instantaneous with the second shot. Jeremy couldn't risk leading Sheila into the twins' room(if Sheila had been the culprit she would have lain with them not the one woman she disliked)and anyway wanted to toss the bibles on the bodies to make it look as if there was a religious theme to the killings.

[Alias]

From the angle of the bullet going into the brain. Death was instantaneous with the second shot. Jeremy couldn't risk leading Sheila into the twins' room(if Sheila had been the culprit she would have lain with them not the one woman she disliked)and anyway wanted to toss the bibles on the bodies to make it look as if there was a religious theme to the killings.

The most "probable" scenario would be for Jeremy to kill Sheila in Sheila´s room - bible or no bible, he could as well have added the bible in her room.
There was no reason for Jeremy to kill Sheila in their parents´ bedroom if he wanted to underline that this was a suicide.
What do you suggest was his motive for that, Steve?

[maggie]

How could you [ hope }  that death would follow ?

Interesting phrase, I agree Mertol.  If your life was on the line as Jeremy Bamber's as killer definitely was, I think  you would ensure that as many tracks as possible were covered.  One of the most important being to ensure Sheila was dead.  He could have suffocated her to ensure her death.  I mean a cold calculating killer wouldn't risk his freedom, he would ensure no one was alive to tell the tale before he left. imo

[lookout]

How could those children have slept like they did with all that going on.? The cracks of the rifle,,the dog barking its head off running around the house not knowing what was going on.? Sheila probably screeching. The noise within that house at dead of night must have been thunderous.
Does anyone know if the children were tested for drugs.?

[Steve_uk]

The most "probable" scenario would be for Jeremy to kill Sheila in Sheila´s room - bible or no bible, he could as well have added the bible in her room.
There was no reason for Jeremy to kill Sheila in their parents´ bedroom if he wanted to underline that this was a suicide.
What do you suggest was his motive for that, Steve?

It probably would have been better with hindsight if Jeremy had killed Sheila in her own room with one fatal shot if possible,and not complicated matters with the telephone call from Nevill which was his downfall.

Possibly Jeremy saw that the religious ruse would work better with Sheila and with mother and daughter in the one room with religious notes and bibles scattered around it made it simpler to convince Police that they were dealing with four murders and a suicide.

[maggie]

From the angle of the bullet going into the brain. Death was instantaneous with the second shot. Jeremy couldn't risk leading Sheila into the twins' room(if Sheila had been the culprit she would have lain with them not the one woman she disliked)and anyway wanted to toss the bibles on the bodies to make it look as if there was a religious theme to the killings.

Steve, you speak glibly about Sheila disliking her mother.  I am not saying she wasn't disturbed and maybe even frightened by her mother, however, relationships are much more complex and intense than you are conceding.  You have no idea what Sheila's feelings about her mother were.  If Sheila had just coldly, unemotionally disliked her mother, she may have found her life slightly easier.  I am just stating that all we know about Sheila's attitude to June is hearsay and in fact Sheila may not even have understood this relationship herself. imo 

[Alias]

It probably would have been better with hindsight if Jeremy had killed Sheila in her own room with one fatal shot if possible,and not complicated matters with the telephone call from Nevill which was his downfall.

Possibly Jeremy saw that the religious ruse would work better with Sheila and with mother and daughter in the one room with religious notes and bibles scattered around it made it simpler to convince Police that they were dealing with four murders and a suicide.

That is too complicated and "messy" for a carefully thought out and executed murder designed to look like suicide. No logic in that.

[Steve_uk]

Steve, you speak glibly about Sheila disliking her mother.  I am not saying she wasn't disturbed and maybe even frightened by her mother, however, relationships are much more complex and intense than you are conceding.  You have no idea what Sheila's feelings about her mother were.  If Sheila had just coldly, unemotionally disliked her mother, she may have found her life slightly easier.  I am just stating that all we know about Sheila's attitude to June is hearsay and in fact Sheila may not even have understood this relationship herself. imo

I'm only simplifying Sheila and June's relationship for the sake of the post,not because I am not cognizant of Dr. Hugh Ferguson's pronouncements,who did say he thought Sheila might possibly have harmed her mother but not the other victims.

[Steve_uk]

That is too complicated and "messy" for a carefully thought out and executed murder designed to look like suicide. No logic in that.

Nevertheless that's how I believe Jeremy executed it all.

[maggie]

I'm only simplifying Sheila and June's relationship for the sake of the post,not because I am not cognizant of Dr. Hugh Ferguson's pronouncements,who did say he thought Sheila might possibly have harmed her mother but not the other victims.

Even the suggestion that Sheila may have hurt her mother does not rule out the fact she may have chosen to die next to her....as I said, relationships are complex. 

[lookout]

That is too complicated and "messy" for a carefully thought out and executed murder designed to look like suicide. No logic in that.

Murder/suicide isn't pre-planned or thought out,,,it's invariably a " sieze the moment " time,,,and without any afterthought.

[maggie]

Murder/suicide isn't pre-planned or thought out,,,it's invariably a " sieze the moment " time,,,and without any afterthought.

Exactly lookout, whatever the catalyst it tends to be spur of the moment and made so much easier with so many firearms within reach.

[Steve_uk]

Even the suggestion that Sheila may have hurt her mother does not rule out the fact she may have chosen to die next to her....as I said, relationships are complex.

But in the extremely unlikely scenario that Sheila picks up a gun and kills her mother in a state of psychosis this does not necessarily lead her to killing three others and then herself. I can't find any cases similar to this one with the possible exception of Catherine Murch who was a depressive not a schizophrenic as far as I know and bought a gun in advance;even in that case the husband was left unharmed.

With the White House Farm murders being a gun crime which statistically is a man's crime whether the Jeremy supporters like it or not,I cannot see any parallels in America with its huge arsenal of guns and its fair share of schizophrenic and depressive women I would hazard a guess exist there.

[lookout]

Steve,,depression and schizophrenia are pretty well the same territory of mental illness in general. It's such a miserable existence anyway,,,and so is vital that all medication is taken regularly and the patient monitored. Nearly all psychotic drugs are subject to blood-testing periodically,,and I can only assume that Sheilas' missed appointments were because she was taking other substances which counteracted her medication and that's why her condition worsened.
The deteriorating circumstances of her condition rendered her to uncontrollable psychotic outbursts,,,so it's more than feasible that she carried out the killings.

[maggie]

But in the extremely unlikely scenario that Sheila picks up a gun and kills her mother in a state of psychosis this does not necessarily lead her to killing three others and then herself. I can't find any cases similar to this one with the possible exception of Catherine Murch who was a depressive not a schizophrenic as far as I know and bought a gun in advance;even in that case the husband was left unharmed.
With the White House Farm murders being a gun crime which statistically is a man's crime whether the Jeremy supporters like it or not,I cannot see any parallels in America with its huge arsenal of guns and its fair share of schizophrenic and depressive women I would hazard a guess exist there.

Obviously every situation is different, steve.  Therefore judging a situation against others while maybe showing a precedent really proves nothing.  The situation in WHF was in many ways unique, how can you compare it with any other.  The fact there were 5 or maybe 6 people involved immediately narrows any comparisons, so many different personalities, so many different experiences and so much emotion. You really can't compare this with any other situation. You can however, concede there were too many guns available in a really volatile and dangerous situation. imo