Police were satisfied that Sheila had killed the other four victims...

[mike tesko]

I don't think it was ever exactly a secret that the police at first believed (not 'were satisfied) that it was 4 murders and a suicide, thanks mainly to the information given to them by JB. Unless I'm missing it the document doesn't appear to be dated.

It's dated, 12th September 1985...

[Bridget]

Well there you go then..

[mike tesko]

Special Branch were monitoring the phones at whf, and Jeremys cottage, as part of their protection program, after threats had been made to kill Ralph Bamber, and his family, by a local man...

[mike tesko]

Special Branch were monitoring the phones at whf, and Jeremys cottage, as part of their protection program, after threats had been made to kill Ralph Bamber, and his family, by a local man...

In addition to the monitoring of the phones, under the authority of an order under the telecommunications act, and authrized by the secretary of state, an attack alarm was fitted and in use at the scene at the time the shootings commenced...

[mike tesko]

In addition to the monitoring of the phones, under the authority of an order under the telecommunications act, and authrized by the secretary of state, an attack alarm was fitted and in use at the scene at the time the shootings commenced...

At least two Special Branch officers (PS Paul Woodcock, being one of those Special Branch officers)attended the scene as part of the firearms team, that forced its way into the premises, at about 7:30am that morning...

[mike tesko]

At least two Special Branch officers (PS Paul Woodcock, being one of those Special Branch officers)attended the scene as part of the firearms team, that forced its way into the premises, at about 7:30am that morning...

Let us also not forget that it was the Special Branch who authorized the destruction of key exhibits from the investigation, back in 1996, without notifying anyone of their intention to do so...

[lookout]

At least two Special Branch officers (PS Paul Woodcock, being one of those Special Branch officers)attended the scene as part of the firearms team, that forced its way into the premises, at about 7:30am that morning...

So that would also account for the surveillance that was arranged for WHF,,,which tells me that Jeremy wasn't aware of such an arrangement or he wouldn't have attempted to get in the place via the window when he did.
Or-----------------even if he had known,and committed the murders as well,,,would he have risked getting into the farmhouse in this way.? I think not.

[big-goolies]

It's dated, 12th September 1985...

 
can you highlight that date cos im not seeing it on that document

[big-goolies]

Police knew that none of the shootings had occurred before 3:30am, because the situation was being constantly monitored as part of a Spevial Branch protection program, whuich had been in place ever since the lives of Ralph Bamber and his family had been threatened...

 
this document doesnt mention that at all Mike.
 
i dont understand what you're reading into this.... i see a document that refers to an incident that occers at that address invovles said people , if anything it proves that SC or the rest of the family could'nt have been killed after 3.30am

[mike tesko]

 
this document doesnt mention that at all Mike.
 
i dont understand what you're reading into this.... i see a document that refers to an incident that occers at that address invovles said people , if anything it proves that SC or the rest of the family could'nt have been killed after 3.30am

How you can work that out is beyond my comprehension, in view of the fact that the first police officers did not arrive at the scene until 3:48am, so I suggest you go back to the drawing board with your theory...

[mike tesko]

 
can you highlight that date cos im not seeing it on that document

Well, you won't see it on that document, because the date is on the attachment which accompanied it to the lab', so you are asking me to prove something by reference to a date which is not present on the posted material - I am unable to refer you to it because of this...

[Reader]

Special Branch knew that because of the nature of the monitoring of the farmhouse (whf) and Jeremy's cottage, in nearby Goldhanger, that Ralph and the others were all still alive at 3:30am, and that four minutes beforehand, Ralph Bamber had been speaking to Special Branch officers on the phone, at around 3:26am, about the deteriorating circumstances which were unfolding back at the farm. Special Branch operatives had already eavesdropped the call made by Ralph to Jeremy, at 3:15am, and later they also eavesdropped the call made by Jeremy to the police, timed at 3:36am...

For these very reasons, Special Branch knew and know that Jeremy Bamber played no role in the shootings of his family...

What is your evidence that Ralph had been speaking to Special Branch at that time? Also, what is your evidence of any such eavesdropping directly by the police, as distinct from by BT on behalf of the police? By Jeremy's own account, he telephoned the police shortly after receiving Ralph's call, although possibly after making a brief call to Julie, whereas you are suggesting he called the police 21 minutes after Ralph called him.

[mike tesko]

What is your evidence that Ralph had been speaking to Special Branch at that time? Also, what is your evidence of any such eavesdropping directly by the police, as distinct from by BT on behalf of the police? By Jeremy's own account, he telephoned the police shortly after receiving Ralph's call, although possibly after making a brief call to Julie, whereas you are suggesting he called the police 21 minutes after Ralph called him.

This appears to be the gist of your argument, or case...

Three timed events:-

(a) - 3:15am - Ralph calls Jeremy
(b) - 3:15am - Jeremy calls Julie Mugford
(c) - 3:26am - Ralph calls police
(d) - Jeremy attempts to call his father back at farmhouse but gets engaged tone
(e) - 3:30am - Jeremy calls Julie mugford
(f) - 3;36am - Jeremy calls police

I would suggest that one or other of the above timings may not be entirely accurate, and could be either slow, or fast by up to 10/15 minutes. If this turns out to be true, then the call by Ralph to Jeremy could have taken place at 3:25am, not 3:15am. If this turns out to be true, then Ralphs call to Jeremy occurred at 3:25am, one minute before Ralph Bamber made his own call to the police, at 3:26am...

Jeremys call to the police, timed at 3:36am, then falls into perspective...

Lets say that phone records show the timing of Jeremys call to the police was at 3:36am, then of course, it becomes possible to say that there was an eleven minute delay between the call Ralph made to Jeremy (3:25am), and ten minutes between the call Ralph Made to the police / special Branch at 3:26am...

From what I have been told, only some of the timings which have been documented are inaccurate - and this occurred and can be proven to have happened because the police themselves are saying that one or other clock at different locations were keeping poor time. With this in mind, the circumstances of the calls as maintained by Jeremy suddenly starts to make sense and when set against the adjusted timings of various calls, appears to be accurate, and more importantly is confirmed by Special Branch records...

Here is the gist of what everyone needs to be focussing upon:-

(a) - Ralph made his call to Jeremy at (3:15am), 3:25am
(c) - Ralph makes his call to the police / Special Branch at 3:26am
(d) - Jeremy attempts to call his father back at farmhouse but gets engaged tone
(e) - Jeremy calls the police at (3:36am), 3:26am

True version of events, as described by Jeremy Bamber, in his police witness statements, police interviews, and trial testimony, is / was as follows:-

He received a telephone call from his father in the middle of the night (3:25am) informing him that Sheila's (she has, he has) got the gun, the line goes dead as if he has been cut off. Ralph then makes his second call of the night, to the police / Special Branch at 3:26am. Whilst Ralph is busy reporting to the police / Special Branch the circumstances relating to what is unfolding at whf, Jeremy is trying to re-establish contact with his father (3:26am) back at whf, but he is met with an enaged tone. Jeremy attemptd to ring back several timnes ,but on each occasion he keeps getting the engaged tone, suggesting that someone at the farmhouse was using the phone. What Jeremy then does, is he makes a phone call to his girlfriend Julie Mugford (3:30am), and afterwards, Jeremy makes his own call to the police at 3:36am...

[Reader]

That simply repeats what you have posted long ago, but replaces "Special Branch" with "the police / Special Branch". There is an apparently contemporaneous log by Malcolm Bonnett that indicates he received a call from Pc West at 03:26, which certainly suggests that Pc West had received a call from Ralph shortly before that time, but Pc West was not Special Branch. It is conceivable that Malcolm Bonnett then also contacted, or was contacted by, Special Branch, but we don't have log entries to prove that, merely an unexplained delay of nine minutes before Malcolm Bonnett logs the dispatch of a patrol car to White House Farm. Also, there is no independent contemporaneous evidence to show that either the Control Room clock used by Malcolm Bonnett at police HQ or the clock used by Pc West at Chelmsford police station was inaccurate.

You haven't provided any evidence that Ralph spoke at any time to Special Branch that morning, and you haven't responded to my question about the eavesdropping.

[mike tesko]

That simply repeats what you have posted long ago, but replaces "Special Branch" with "the police / Special Branch". There is an apparently contemporaneous log by Malcolm Bonnett that indicates he received a call from Pc West at 03:26, which certainly suggests that Pc West had received a call from Ralph shortly before that time, but Pc West was not Special Branch. It is conceivable that Malcolm Bonnett then also contacted, or was contacted by, Special Branch, but we don't have log entries to prove that, merely an unexplained delay of nine minutes before Malcolm Bonnett logs the dispatch of a patrol car to White House Farm. Also, there is no independent contemporaneous evidence to show that either the Control Room clock used by Malcolm Bonnett at police HQ or the clock used by Pc West at Chelmsford police station was inaccurate.

You haven't provided any evidence that Ralph spoke at any time to Special Branch that morning, and you haven't responded to my question about the eavesdropping.

Well, my response to you is this, first of all you do not know that PC West was not seconded to the Special Branch operation ongoing at the time of the shootings when Special Branch had a protection program in place, as a result of threats made to the lives of Ralph Bamber, and his family. Next, it is not me saying the clocks were supposed to be wrong, it was the police who put this forward as part of the cover up in trying to promote Jeremy Bambers guilt. Nobody has tried to move around the timings of the various clocks, only the police and its witnesses, so please do not try to suggest that this was / is something I have simply made up. It was not me who withheld the timing of the second phone log (3:26am) which contains information which could have only been passed to the police either as a direct result of Ralph Bamber speaking directly to the police at that time, or relayed to the police by Special Branch at that time.

Evidence exists to show that the control room clock was about 10 minutes fast, and also that the clock at the boarding lodgings where Julie Mugford had been staying was also incorrect, by 10 / 15 minutes - iontroduced in the form of witness statements by the police and various unhelpful witnesses...