Author Topic: She's got the gun  (Read 29585 times)

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Offline Steve_uk

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Re: She's got the gun
« Reply #360 on: February 10, 2013, 03:15:PM »

Steve,,not only did I study schizophrenia ( though I don't profess to know everything about it ) I also worked with such patients,,,and certainly know how unpredictable they can be,and are. There's no malice aforethought with them,they just do it on a whim.
Yes and there's no side,there's no cutting off telephone calls for fear of outside intervention(schizophrenics are unaware of law enforcement in a state of psychosis) and they don't kill themselves conveniently for another member of the family who had plotted to kill them for over a year to inherit.

"The trick is to tell the truth wherever possible" was one of Jeremy's most telling statements to Julie as they walked around the block near Julie's parents' house in one of the few times they were alone together after the murders. It portrays an insight into Jeremy's mind as requested by Susan,and explains Jeremy's reluctance to speak to Police after that first morning at Goldhanger,where he did well from his point of view apart from the slip to Julie of the chuckle overheard incredulously by DS Stan Jones and that now infamous comment:"I should have been an actor".

Caroline R

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Re: She's got the gun
« Reply #361 on: February 10, 2013, 03:18:PM »
Yes and there's no side,there's no cutting off telephone calls for fear of outside intervention(schizophrenics are unaware of law enforcement in a state of psychosis) and they don't kill themselves conveniently for another member of the family who had plotted to kill them for over a year to inherit.

"The trick is to tell the truth wherever possible" was one of Jeremy's most telling statements to Julie as they walked around the block near Julie's parents' house in one of the few times they were alone together after the murders. It portrays an insight into Jeremy's mind as requested by Susan,and explains Jeremy's reluctance to speak to Police after that first morning at Goldhanger,where he did well from his point of view apart from the slip to Julie of the chuckle overheard incredulously by DS Stan Jones and that now infamous comment:"I should have been an actor".

Pity Julie didn't take his advice!!  ;D ;D ;D ;D

Offline Jane

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Re: She's got the gun
« Reply #362 on: February 10, 2013, 03:22:PM »

Steve,,not only did I study schizophrenia ( though I don't profess to know everything about it ) I also worked with such patients,,,and certainly know how unpredictable they can be,and are. There's no malice aforethought with them,they just do it on a whim.


Steve, can you please explain what the above has to do with the following:-


Yes and there's no side,there's no cutting off telephone calls for fear of outside intervention(schizophrenics are unaware of law enforcement in a state of psychosis) and they don't kill themselves conveniently for another member of the family who had plotted to kill them for over a year to inherit.

"The trick is to tell the truth wherever possible" was one of Jeremy's most telling statements to Julie as they walked around the block near Julie's parents' house in one of the few times they were alone together after the murders. It portrays an insight into Jeremy's mind as requested by Susan,and explains Jeremy's reluctance to speak to Police after that first morning at Goldhanger,where he did well from his point of view apart from the slip to Julie of the chuckle overheard incredulously by DS Stan Jones and that now infamous comment:"I should have been an actor".









Offline lookout

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Re: She's got the gun
« Reply #363 on: February 10, 2013, 03:31:PM »
Yes and there's no side,there's no cutting off telephone calls for fear of outside intervention(schizophrenics are unaware of law enforcement in a state of psychosis) and they don't kill themselves conveniently for another member of the family who had plotted to kill them for over a year to inherit.

"The trick is to tell the truth wherever possible" was one of Jeremy's most telling statements to Julie as they walked around the block near Julie's parents' house in one of the few times they were alone together after the murders. It portrays an insight into Jeremy's mind as requested by Susan,and explains Jeremy's reluctance to speak to Police after that first morning at Goldhanger,where he did well from his point of view apart from the slip to Julie of the chuckle overheard incredulously by DS Stan Jones and that now infamous comment:"I should have been an actor".




Schizophrenics don't tell the truth,,,as at times they're in denial anyway,,so could be talking to you and I quite lucidly one minute,,,then the next second,,pull a knife from nowhere.
They see things that aren't there,,,or are not as others see.
They also hear voices telling them to kill.
Sheila had obviously reached a point of no return as there was only so much medication that could be had for her type of psychosis.

Sheila,,if anyone,was the actress,,,as one minute,,,silent and deep in thought,,then the next,rifle in hand and whizzing around the place like a Dirvish.
When Dr Ferguson gave evidence,,he had the temerity to state that which Sheila had told him about killing the children and committing suicide,,,but sadly,,,or carelessly,,he took no heed to the warning signs and stated more or less that neither her nor her children were in danger.?  I'd have questioned that for starters,,,as either contradictory or that he wasn't fully conversant with the illness.

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: She's got the gun
« Reply #364 on: February 10, 2013, 03:55:PM »

Steve, can you please explain what the above has to do with the following:-
We've been over this ground so many times:Nicola Edgington,Lianne Smith,Melanie Ruddell,Christopher Clunis,Deyan Valentinov..

I think you need to get over the horrors of what they have committed (which is admittedly difficult)and then look for patterns. None of them necessarily kill themselves at the time of the psychosis after their murder spree,none are fearful of prosecution or intervention by Police because they don't know what they're doing.

Offline lookout

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Re: She's got the gun
« Reply #365 on: February 10, 2013, 04:04:PM »
Steve,,,believe it or not,,,they sometimes forget to commit suicide themselves and it ends up being an afterthought,,but neverthless,,those who set out to kill others invariably kill themselves eventually.
The same as if Jeremy had committed those atrocities,,he'd have topped himself well before now.

Offline Jane

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Re: She's got the gun
« Reply #366 on: February 10, 2013, 04:05:PM »
We've been over this ground so many times:Nicola Edgington,Lianne Smith,Melanie Ruddell,Christopher Clunis,Deyan Valentinov..

I think you need to get over the horrors of what they have committed (which is admittedly difficult)and then look for patterns. None of them necessarily kill themselves at the time of the psychosis after their murder spree,none are fearful of prosecution or intervention by Police because they don't know what they're doing.



Well, Steve. As you have gone waaaaaay off track from WHF to try to prove your point perhaps I can suggest that it may not have been a necessary journey.

Let us suppose for a moment that Sheila wasn't aware of what she had done. Let us suppose she was wandering through the detriutus of death believing she had entered a new world, when the police arrived. What then, Steve?

Offline Steve_uk

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Re: She's got the gun
« Reply #367 on: February 10, 2013, 04:21:PM »


Well, Steve. As you have gone waaaaaay off track from WHF to try to prove your point perhaps I can suggest that it may not have been a necessary journey.

Let us suppose for a moment that Sheila wasn't aware of what she had done. Let us suppose she was wandering through the detriutus of death believing she had entered a new world, when the police arrived. What then, Steve?
We're building one hypothesis on another,but to humour you for a moment I don't believe Sheila would have left her boys. She made reference to them in her letter to Ann Eaton from St. Andrews' and she would have taken them in her arms from their beds and gone to meet law enforcement akin to the Melanie Ruddell case.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2013, 04:22:PM by Steve_uk »

Offline lookout

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Re: She's got the gun
« Reply #368 on: February 10, 2013, 04:37:PM »
That's right,Steve,,,Sheila didn't leave her boys,,,,she took them with her as intended.

Offline Jane

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Re: She's got the gun
« Reply #369 on: February 10, 2013, 04:37:PM »
We're building one hypothesis on another,but to humour you for a moment I don't believe Sheila would have left her boys. She made reference to them in her letter to Ann Eaton from St. Andrews' and she would have taken them in her arms from their beds and gone to meet law enforcement akin to the Melanie Ruddell case.


I really don't appreciate condescention, Steve. I wouldn't insult your intelligence by telling you WHAT happened because I have the humility to admit I don't know. Neither do you. If Sheila had separated from herself she would have been unaware of what she had done. She may not have even realized where she was. I don't believe that one persons experience of being in psychosis can necessarily be measured against anothers, which would mean it isn't possible to say that because these people acted in a certain way, Sheila did the same.




Offline Steve_uk

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Re: She's got the gun
« Reply #370 on: February 10, 2013, 04:45:PM »

I really don't appreciate condescention, Steve. I wouldn't insult your intelligence by telling you WHAT happened because I have the humility to admit I don't know. Neither do you. If Sheila had separated from herself she would have been unaware of what she had done. She may not have even realized where she was. I don't believe that one persons experience of being in psychosis can necessarily be measured against anothers, which would mean it isn't possible to say that because these people acted in a certain way, Sheila did the same.
So what motive does Sheila have for killing her boys? Either she's in control of her faculties(as it's my case Jeremy was when he killed his family),she destroys anyone and everything who comes in her way including Nevill which would explain the cut-off telephone call,or she's in psychosis and hasn't a clue what she's doing or the consequences.

I put it to you that Sheila was not the vindictive type,she was squeamish at the best of times and was guilty no more of indolence and wanting to hook a rich man as a husband after Colin left her.

Offline lookout

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Re: She's got the gun
« Reply #371 on: February 10, 2013, 04:49:PM »
Delusions of grandeur---------------another symptom. ( rich boyfriend.) Sorry,,but in her state of mind.?

Offline susan

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Re: She's got the gun
« Reply #372 on: February 10, 2013, 04:52:PM »
april my friend  an excellent post and very well said ;) ;) ;)

Offline Jane

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Re: She's got the gun
« Reply #373 on: February 10, 2013, 05:00:PM »
So what motive does Sheila have for killing her boys? Either she's in control of her faculties(as it's my case Jeremy was when he killed his family),she destroys anyone and everything who comes in her way including Nevill which would explain the cut-off telephone call,or she's in psychosis and hasn't a clue what she's doing or the consequences.

I put it to you that Sheila was not the vindictive type,she was squeamish at the best of times and was guilty no more of indolence and wanting to hook a rich man as a husband after Colin left her.


And I put it to you, and I imagine it has been said many times by those more knowledgable than I, that a person in the grip of psychosis probably loses all sense of who they are and act totally out of character. Following your line of thought it would seem as if you are saying that women who kill their children must have previously physically abused them. I don't believe this is necessarily the case.

Offline Jane

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Re: She's got the gun
« Reply #374 on: February 10, 2013, 05:01:PM »
april my friend  an excellent post and very well said ;) ;) ;)



Susan dear, THANKYOU :-* :-*