She's got the gun

[maggie]

Hi Maggie, I assume that all external doors were either bolted from the inside, or had a key inserted on the inside of  the lock. 
Was it just the ground floor that was deemed to be secure and locked from the inside?
I believe there was an open window upstairs.
A bit farfetched maybe, but after the murders could JB have placed a ladder up to that open window.
Gone back inside whf locked up the ground floor, got out the upstairs window onto the ladder. Pushed the sash window back up. Climbed down the ladder and replaced it in an outbuilding.
I presume a farm would have a ladder on the premises?
I wonder if a ladder was ever found and examined forensically – knowing EP’s style I bet not!

Hi nickos, I agree it is a possibility that someone could have done that. Personally have never thought of that. Dont know if its ever been discussed on here before.  Its certainly a thought and I agree EP no doubt didnt contemplate such a possibility.  The judge at trial stated it didnt matter how he got in just that he was able to so maybe this was taken into account as the window theory is very unconvincing imo??

[Lugg]

Hi nickos, I agree it is a possibility that someone could have done that. Personally have never thought of that. Dont know if its ever been discussed on here before.  Its certainly a thought and I agree EP no doubt didnt contemplate such a possibility.  The judge at trial stated it didnt matter how he got in just that he was able to so maybe this was taken into account as the window theory is very unconvincing imo??

Maggie if someone is determined to believe Jeremy is guilty they can create any number of possibilities. They could even have him flying to the Moon in order to invent senarios.
The plain facts are that the only things connecting him to this crime is dodgy silencer evidence and the words of of a proven liar who he had just dumped and her memory miraculously returned in order to incriminate. Alot of what has been said on this forum about his guilt have been concocted over the years until he is seen as the devil incarnate.

[Alias]

Hi Maggie, I assume that all external doors were either bolted from the inside, or had a key inserted on the inside of  the lock. 

Was it just the ground floor that was deemed to be secure and locked from the inside?

I believe there was an open window upstairs.

A bit farfetched maybe, but after the murders could JB have placed a ladder up to that open window.

Gone back inside whf locked up the ground floor, got out the upstairs window onto the ladder. Pushed the sash window back up. Climbed down the ladder and replaced it in an outbuilding.

I presume a farm would have a ladder on the premises?

I wonder if a ladder was ever found and examined forensically – knowing EP’s style I bet not!

Things don´t add up personality-wise regarding Jeremy. On one hand, he ran around mindlessly talking to people about how he hated his family and basically wanted them dead. He foolishly led his girlfriend through every step of the year-long planning, then phoning her the night of the murders to let her know he was going ahead with the plan, then he utterly stupidly called her again after the fact, to tell her he HAD done it That makes Jeremy pretty damned stupid, eh?
To me that does not correspond with the meticulous entrance and exit from the farm you describe. Doesn´t click for me.

[lookout]

Things don´t add up personality-wise regarding Jeremy. On one hand, he ran around mindlessly talking to people about how he hated his family and basically wanted them dead. He foolishly led his girlfriend through every step of the year-long planning, then phoning her the night of the murders to let her know he was going ahead with the plan, then he utterly stupidly called her again after the fact, to tell her he HAD done it That makes Jeremy pretty damned stupid, eh?
To me that does not correspond with the meticulous entrance and exit from the farm you describe. Doesn´t click for me.

Alias,,if it's been alleged that he did all that,,,then why hasn't he been found to be criminally insane.?

[Nickos]

Maggie if someone is determined to believe Jeremy is guilty they can create any number of possibilities. They could even have him flying to the Moon in order to invent senarios.
The plain facts are that the only things connecting him to this crime is dodgy silencer evidence and the words of of a proven liar who he had just dumped and her memory miraculously returned in order to incriminate. Alot of what has been said on this forum about his guilt have been concocted over the years until he is seen as the devil incarnate.

I've read more extreme scenarios from those who believe Sheila did it.

I at least suggested the ladder theory may be farfetched - but it could be simply carried out.

(as opposed to JB flying to the moon which I would never suggest. Now if JB had an alibi that he was on the moon that night - something new for the defence to work on maybe?) 

[Nickos]

Things don´t add up personality-wise regarding Jeremy. On one hand, he ran around mindlessly talking to people about how he hated his family and basically wanted them dead. He foolishly led his girlfriend through every step of the year-long planning, then phoning her the night of the murders to let her know he was going ahead with the plan, then he utterly stupidly called her again after the fact, to tell her he HAD done it That makes Jeremy pretty damned stupid, eh?
To me that does not correspond with the meticulous entrance and exit from the farm you describe. Doesn´t click for me.

I agree, there are a lot of things that don't add up (based on available information).

But 10 + 2 = majority.

Do I take it you know JB (and his personality)?

[maggie]

Maggie if someone is determined to believe Jeremy is guilty they can create any number of possibilities. They could even have him flying to the Moon in order to invent senarios.
The plain facts are that the only things connecting him to this crime is dodgy silencer evidence and the words of of a proven liar who he had just dumped and her memory miraculously returned in order to incriminate. Alot of what has been said on this forum about his guilt have been concocted over the years until he is seen as the devil incarnate.

I know lugg, i didnt say I agreed with nickos' theory ...... Just accepted that the theory is on some levels a reasonable suggestion as it stands. .....chilled maggie .......

[Jane]

I've read more extreme scenarios from those who believe Sheila did it.

I at least suggested the ladder theory may be farfetched - but it could be simply carried out.

(as opposed to JB flying to the moon which I would never suggest.....................

Perhaps you wouldn't, but Steve just might :D :D :D

[lookout]

The only feasible theory for those who find Jeremy guilty,would be the fact that he didn't leave WHF that night at all,,until the early hours. Even that's got holes in it.

[Nickos]

The only feasible theory for those who find Jeremy guilty,would be . Even that's got holes in it.

Hi Lookout, the only relevant people who did find JB guilty were the 10 members of the Jury.

I don't find JB guilty. I believe him to be guilty.

And I don’t think the 10 Jury members based their decision on "the fact that he (JB) didn't leave WHF that night at all, until the early hours”.

I think they based their decision on the entry/exit position as presented by the Prosecution.

[Nickos]

Perhaps you wouldn't, but Steve just might :D :D :D

 

[Lugg]

I've read more extreme scenarios from those who believe Sheila did it.

I at least suggested the ladder theory may be farfetched - but it could be simply carried out.

(as opposed to JB flying to the moon which I would never suggest. Now if JB had an alibi that he was on the moon that night - something new for the defence to work on maybe?) 

The police believed it and so do I. Not far fetched at all. The only trouble is no one seems to be able to accept the plain evidence before them? It points to Sheila what ever state she was found in. IF the police reveal what was really found that day then possibly the fact that Sheila did it may not seem too far fetched? The great difficulty is that they have witheld so much evidence from what was truly found at the scene that day and the other problem is that the evidence they have released simply does not add up. The question we ought to be asking is "What did the police REALLY find that say?"

[Jane]

The police believed it and so do I. Not far fetched at all. The only trouble is no one seems to be able to accept the plain evidence before them? It points to Sheila what ever state she was found in. IF the police reveal what was really found that day then possibly the fact that Sheila did it may not seem too far fetched? The great difficulty is that they have witheld so much evidence from what was truly found at the scene that day and the other problem is that the evidence they have released simply does not add up. The question we ought to be asking is "What did the police REALLY find that say?"

But Lugg, if we leave aside for a moment what the police may, or not have done we are still left with Sheila's life, from adolescence at least, being an accident waiting to happen. There was, and remains no proof  other than speculative, that Jeremy was in any way implicated. A bit of a Hooray Henry but no sign of any disturbance, no criminal record, although many would like him to have, no violent outbursts unless we consider it true that he tried to strangle rats. With Sheila, however, there is a strong balance of possibilities(borrowed from Steve, working for me )making her culpable and she was set on that path many years before it became necessary to call the police.

[lookout]

 The sadness of the situation was that years ago,,,nobody thought it possible that a young woman would have been capable of such a murder.
A trial such as that today,, would have an entirely different outcome.

[Lugg]

But Lugg, if we leave aside for a moment what the police may, or not have done we are still left with Sheila's life, from adolescence at least, being an accident waiting to happen. There was, and remains no proof  other than speculative, that Jeremy was in any way implicated. A bit of a Hooray Henry but no sign of any disturbance, no criminal record, although many would like him to have, no violent outbursts unless we consider it true that he tried to strangle rats. With Sheila, however, there is a strong balance of possibilities(borrowed from Steve, working for me )making her culpable and she was set on that path many years before it became necessary to call the police.

Also I know someone who knew him and she said no way could Jeremy have done those murders. I know soldiers who said to me that it was the hardest thing they have ever done to kill another person, let alone five in one night. He would have been shaking uncontrollably when he was with the police. The way the antis get round this is to add a hitman. And that was found to be a lie of Mugford. But if you suggest it was a lie they counter that by saying it was Jeremy who told her the lie. And so the senario gets stranger and stranger. No. This deed was done by some very sick person and I believe that person to be Sheila.